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Nick Pierce 02-07-2018 04:06 PM

Yeeoww!
 
They are going off the rails
over there at the Writer's website
about inequality of the sexes

And of course everyone has a valid
(for them) point

I'm thinkin' back to Mesopotamia
time and before
There is a figurine (carbon dated) of a large
(by current Anglo standards) female

Not certain if it is intended
to represent a deity

Wonderin' when/if this "Patriarchal"
planet was once a "Matriarchal"
arrangement

And if so - what happened (that
brought change to the now system)

I suppose gettin' at that would
involve a lot of finger pointing

Perhaps a more useful approach
(as recriminations rage)
would be to do what it takes
to imagine a sexually balanced
world

Hmm, now just how would that
look?

Are humans, no, is there a human
ability to visualize such
society?

If so what are some of
the parameters?

If not then hunker down, pal
Incoming

pralina 02-08-2018 01:49 PM

There still are matriarchal societies, mostly small tribes of people in remote places. I would love to see a total equality, it would be very interesting, might be scary, might result in chaos, or be a way to a world peace. An interesting idea for a story - a future in which there is total equality. Would it be dystopian?

Nick Pierce 02-08-2018 03:03 PM

[QUOTE=pralina

I would love to see a total equality

[/QUOTE]

Do you know any Russians?

pralina 02-08-2018 04:41 PM

I sound like a communist, don’t I!’?

And no, I don’t know any Russians.

brianpatrick 02-08-2018 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pralina (Post 741575)
There still are matriarchal societies, mostly small tribes of people in remote places. I would love to see a total equality, it would be very interesting, might be scary, might result in chaos, or be a way to a world peace. An interesting idea for a story - a future in which there is total equality. Would it be dystopian?



I have a household that is equal(and I bet a lot of other people do too. Maybe you do). I doubt we could create public policy by our example, but it works.

We own a small business. Itís a plumbing company. While there is no formal contract, I am the plumber, and she runs the office, does bookkeeping, answers phones, calls our employees and solves all kinds of problems. Of course, I do some of those things too, but she does more. Itís a cliche, but a lot of problems seem like nails to me, and nails need to be hammered. She usually offers a more nuanced approach, and helps me a lot with customer relations, employee relations, and in being more sensitive to peopleís needs in general. Without her the company would be very different. Iím not saying it wouldnít work, but it would be different.

She does most of the cooking, and house work. Not because thatís a womanís job, but because she is home (we have a home office) most of the day and I am not. And honestly, she likes to do it. She has more day to day interaction with our 14 year old son for the same reason. Sheís home more.

I generally take out the trash (especially at night), clean the yard up, keep the garage clean, wash the cars, carry things that are too heavy for her, kill critters she is afraid of (scorpions, black widows, rattle snakes, rats), and she often jokes that I do the Ďmaní stuff, and she does the Ďwomaní stuff, but we both know itís more than that.

She could easily learn to be a plumber, and I could learn to run the office. Neither are rocket science, but itís convenient because I donít like tedious paperwork, and she doesnít like giant muddy holes or crawling around in hot attics.

Our socialization has no doubt led in some part to our preferences, but a lot of it is just what each of us is best at, what we naturally are inclined to enjoy.

There are plenty of women plumbers, but maybe 1 out a hundred, or maybe thousand. I know of two in the city I live in. They are both excellent plumbers, but if you said to a group of men and women: Iíll give you $50 to jump down in that trench and hook that sewer up, I bet more men would do it than women. For a lot of reasons that have to do with biology. Yeah, thereís socialization, but men and women are different both biologically and psychologically too.

There are always people who break the stereo type. And I donít believe we should discriminate wrt them, but statistically that number is small.

I think equality of opportunity is good, but equality of outcome is bad.






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pralina 02-09-2018 12:20 AM

That’s exactly my point. I understand equality by being able to pursue anything I want without being ridiculed. How you do it is up to you, but you should have the right to try on equal terms without having to deal with extra obstacles and mean comments or worse.

Nick Pierce 02-09-2018 02:07 AM

[QUOTE=pralina

And no, I donít know any Russians.

[/QUOTE]

Russians ain't communist anymore.

My point was gonna be how unlikely equal opportunity for females they tend to be.

pralina 02-09-2018 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Pierce (Post 741594)
Russians ain't communist anymore.

I know, itís just something that came to mind

Nick Pierce 02-09-2018 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pralina (Post 741597)
I know, itís just something that came to mind

Da, da.

pralina 02-09-2018 03:51 AM

To be honest it’s not that much different in Poland. People are fighting it but it’s not easy.

https://youtu.be/DNs_nn_qBIQ

Nick Pierce 02-09-2018 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pralina (Post 741603)
To be honest itís not that much different in Poland. People are fighting it but itís not easy.

https://youtu.be/DNs_nn_qBIQ


If you want to live in peace be able to make war better than anyone else.

chat bot 02-09-2018 08:16 PM

really good. quite ingenious and inspiring, nick. nice title!! where is it from? <-ur inspiration.

pralina 02-09-2018 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Pierce (Post 741612)
If you want to live in peace be able to make war better than anyone else.

That sound very American to me.
Iíd say that if you want to live in peace - educate.

Nick Pierce 02-10-2018 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chat bot (Post 741624)
really good. quite ingenious and inspiring, nick. nice title!! where is it from? <-ur inspiration.

The title is of my own origination.

Nick Pierce 02-10-2018 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pralina (Post 741627)
That sound very American to me.
Iíd say that if you want to live in peace - educate.


Yeah, the sentiment is American sounding these days. In other historical eras it would have sounded Mongol or Roman to name two.

The difference between propagandizing and educating is ... well, how would you tell them apart?

pralina 02-10-2018 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Pierce (Post 741636)
Yeah, the sentiment is American sounding these days. In other historical eras it would have sounded Mongol or Roman to name two.

The difference between propagandizing and educating is ... well, how would you tell them apart?

You can and should question that what you are being told. If it's education it should be explainable in an objective way and if the presented facts are indeed facts they are verifiable.

Propaganda gets mad when you question it, it's subjective, and exists in denial.

Nick Pierce 02-10-2018 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pralina (Post 741637)
You can and should question that what you are being told. If it's education it should be explainable in an objective way and if the presented facts are indeed facts they are verifiable.

Propaganda gets mad when you question it, it's subjective, and exists in denial.

The skilled propagandaism does not display anger. When stymied in one area by education it simply moves to a less educated area.

This has recently (in our lifetime) been done by tobacco selling companies.

Nick Pierce 02-10-2018 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pralina (Post 741637)
You can and should question that what you are being told. If it's education it should be explainable in an objective way and if the presented facts are indeed facts they are verifiable.

Propaganda gets mad when you question it, it's subjective, and exists in denial.

Sometimes the anger of propaganda when being confronted with education is quite physical.

Malala Yousafzai is a current example.

brianpatrick 02-10-2018 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pralina (Post 741590)
Thatís exactly my point. I understand equality by being able to pursue anything I want without being ridiculed. How you do it is up to you, but you should have the right to try on equal terms without having to deal with extra obstacles and mean comments or worse.



...or worse, yeah, I agree with that part.
Mean comments and ridicule probably canít be avoided though. Iím curious about your idea of extra obstacles.

Ideas are easy, but societal changes and institutions to support them take a long time to become the norm.

Seems like the world (with the exception of a few countries) is moving in a positive direction on all fronts. Itís just hard to view it on a small timescale. Hopefully the radicals on either end of these discussions donít slow progress with stupidity too much. I donít think anyone can stop the push. Itís going there no matter what.

Well, unless somebody starts a nuclear war or something stupid.


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Beesauce 03-04-2018 12:27 PM

Nick, haha. You get a hitchhiker thumb on this one.
whatever that means

I actually can visualize equality, but i don't think the people who profit from the imbalance will give up without giving everyone a heart attack first. Meh-- there's always survivors.

What happens when all the enemies are locked up? I think the answer is to start creating more enemies, which is how the military keeps punching in the timeclock

Ticktock.
Clip-clop.
You're a poet N.P!
How much they pay you for this? No. Hush don't say, wait 'til April. NaPoMo?! I know youre obliged to participate you poet you

Myers 03-05-2018 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianpatrick (Post 741584)
I have a household that is equal(and I bet a lot of other people do too. Maybe you do). I doubt we could create public policy by our example, but it works.

It's hard to say for sure -- but from what I see, the distribution of the workload is not equal -- although husbands tend to think it is. This is especially true when both the husband and wife work out of the home. Both put in full days at work, but most of the housework and childcare is done by the wife.

My wife and sister were skyping the other day (my sister lives in Italy and has an Italian husband -- that's a whole different dynamic) and they were talking about a couple and the wife is very sick -- my sister said, he keeps the house clean -- well, a man's idea of clean. I shouted out in mock protest -- but I knew what she meant.

I work at home -- I do the cooking and other chores and errands without complaint -- but I often have to be reminded.

But you have to wonder -- does all the extra work and pressure (some self-inflicted) have an effect on job performance or the drive to advance?

I see women who are kicking ass in the workplace -- then they have kids and the fire seems to go out. I'm sure some of it has to do with the shift in priorities you don't often see with men -- I wonder how much of it is just sheer exhaustion because men don't really step up to the plate?

Beesauce 03-09-2018 10:10 AM

Parameters of a sexually balanced world starts with truths

Nice poem!

spshane 03-09-2018 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myers (Post 742782)
It's hard to say for sure -- but from what I see, the distribution of the workload is not equal -- although husbands tend to think it is. This is especially true when both the husband and wife work out of the home. Both put in full days at work, but most of the housework and childcare is done by the wife.

I often say the same thing, but the other way around. Because there are so many jobs that many wives for whatever reason haven't done, there too quick to say "a job equals a job". My ex-wife, for example used to do shit like "okay, I'm mop the floor and you remove the tree stump from the back yard". Women tend to think that's a fair trade. If it is, then I'll mop the floor and she can remove the tree stump; we'll see how long that remains a fair trade.
It went on and on like that. "I'm gonna clean the bathrooms and you can re-tile the basement." That was a fair trade by her estimation. "I'm gonna cook dinner and you can replace the alternator on the car." Also a fair trade by her estimation.
Finally, I said "Let's let the market work this out. You bid out your jobs to a professional and I'll bid out mine to a professional. We'll split the difference financially." She ended up paying me more than I had to pay her. We divorced a few months later. Greatest thing that ever happened to me.

Myers 03-09-2018 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spshane (Post 743049)
I often say the same thing, but the other way around. Because there are so many jobs that many wives for whatever reason haven't done, there too quick to say "a job equals a job". My ex-wife, for example used to do shit like "okay, I'm mop the floor and you remove the tree stump from the back yard". Women tend to think that's a fair trade. If it is, then I'll mop the floor and she can remove the tree stump; we'll see how long that remains a fair trade.
It went on and on like that. "I'm gonna clean the bathrooms and you can re-tile the basement." That was a fair trade by her estimation. "I'm gonna cook dinner and you can replace the alternator on the car." Also a fair trade by her estimation.
Finally, I said "Let's let the market work this out. You bid out your jobs to a professional and I'll bid out mine to a professional. We'll split the difference financially." She ended up paying me more than I had to pay her. We divorced a few months later. Greatest thing that ever happened to me.

We don't get into that tit for tat stuff. Sounds like a drag. No wonder she's your ex.

Yes, I do some big jobs -- if I have the know-how -- I've tiled the bathroom and kitchen, replace toilets and sinks, I painted the exterior of the house once -- which I will never do again. For me anyway, that's not a constant thing by any means -- and there are plenty of guys I know who never do any of that stuff -- and a lot of them play golf or fish or hunt or whatever on weekends. My wife would agree I probably do more than most -- but that's because I work at home.

The other chores -- moping, vacuuming, laundry, running errands, carpool, taking the kids to various activities, most of the bill paying, shopping etc. etc. -- my wife does the lion's share of it -- and that's the way it is with most couples I know -- even if they both work. All that stuff is constant.

Otherwise, depending on how often you do big jobs, of course -- I don't see it as fair trade, just based on the sheer volume of work my wife does along with the stress of managing the whole show. Some of that is self-imposed -- things don't really have to be spic and span all the time.

Everyone is different -- everyone perceives things differently from the outside -- but from what I see, the wife usually gets the short end of the stick -- especially if she's working.


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