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A noted decline

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  #151  
Old 03-03-2015, 06:34 AM
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as we have already established - I am a control freak

and this has spun out of control.

so, if you can't stay on subject please go hijack some other thread.

back to the here and now.

I can't say about the decline because I didn't join the site until July of 14 ( I think) but it has decline since. recently I have seen an increase in activity but it all seems to be gathered around a common hard core group that may have given up and have now found new cause.

I have seen names on this post that I have never seen before on this site. so maybe we are beginning to get some new life signs out of our Frankenstein.

I hope so.

and once again with a twist, if the hard core doesn't try to encourage new members then who will...

I'm not going to look up any statics but surly it's easy to understand that there is a very small percentage of people that have a talent to write. we should encourage the ones that give it a try.

max

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  #152  
Old 03-03-2015, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by max crash View Post
as we have already established - I am a control freak

and this has spun out of control.

so, if you can't stay on subject please go hijack some other thread.

back to the here and now.

I can't say about the decline because I didn't join the site until July of 14 ( I think) but it has decline since. recently I have seen an increase in activity but it all seems to be gathered around a common hard core group that may have given up and have now found new cause.

I have seen names on this post that I have never seen before on this site. so maybe we are beginning to get some new life signs out of our Frankenstein.

I hope so.

and once again with a twist, if the hard core doesn't try to encourage new members then who will...

I'm not going to look up any statics but surly it's easy to understand that there is a very small percentage of people that have a talent to write. we should encourage the ones that give it a try.

max
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  #153  
Old 03-03-2015, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by max crash View Post
shelly

you're right this isn't the majors, this is the bush league, and like it or not we are bush league coaches. we should be doing our best to help them get a shot at the majors.

even if we have the number one best seller - we are still on this site - while we are here we have an obligation to coach not judge.

I'll relay a shot story on my baseball career, I set the bench from the time I was in ninth grade until I was a senior. I never played in a game.

We got a new coach my senior year, he over looked my brushes with the law and gave me and everyone a fair run at the positions, I got second base. I also batted cleanup and sometimes pinch hit.

now I wasn't any better than I ever was - someone just gave me a chance. Maybe that is where I'm coming from in these post.

what you see as inattention or sloppy work may just be lack of encouragement.

think about it.

Max

Max, when it's time for All Star voting, you're getting mine. Through this unnecessary discussion, which has turned personal, you remained clean. You remind me of Joe Dimaggio who played center field so gracefully that his uniform was never dirty because he never had to slide on the field to catch a ball. Joe's sharp "ball" instincts allowed him to catch everything on his feet, and your instincts are as sharp as his. Don't change your style or else you might end up riding the pine again.

Good luck to you from a fellow long ball hitter (and fairly decent "glovesmen").
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  #154  
Old 03-03-2015, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by midwestamp View Post
I intended for you to interpret however your mind would like, without being the kind of person that was trying to incite an insult from me. Sleep tight. Wake up. Try again.

Cool. I read this after a good night of rest. The way my mind interpreted it (the original quote) is what got me to asking about it. I think of tributaries as water and roads as not water. So I was asking if modifying tributaries to paths would continue to work for you while working for me.

I don't know if the activity betwixt you and others in this thread (the invective stuff) is inadvertently, in your view, shading our exchanges. So this is me clearly stating that I don't post to piss people off.

I really am about working with the Word.

Sincerely,

well you know who wrote this
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  #155  
Old 03-03-2015, 11:52 AM
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While I still hold the view that the site is in decline, there have been a number of people who have highlighted a willingness to 'plough on' through. So I'll end my participation on the note of how I started it.


Originally Posted by risk10 View Post
For my part, I will try to be more active and provide crits to more pieces. But I would like to see more time and effort placed in the execution of a story, if I am to invest my time in providing a critique.


See you around.
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  #156  
Old 03-03-2015, 12:38 PM
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I think we have beat it to death too, so (as the gavel sounds) court dismissed.

feel free to chat among yourselves and smoke'em if you got'em

Max
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  #157  
Old 03-03-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by risk10 View Post
While I still hold the view that the site is in decline, there have been a number of people who have highlighted a willingness to 'plough on' through. So I'll end my participation on the note of how I started it.
It's absolutely in decline. You and I know it -- and anyone who was around 2-3 years ago knows it too. Like I was saying -- I think the site is below the critical mass of the kind of writers and writing that draw in new members.

"Members Only" is a shadow of what it has been in the past. And that's where I post most of my stuff. So beyond habit and nostalgia, there isn't much reason for me to be here. But there is just enough activity, and a few remaining loyal members, and occasionally, an enthusiastic and talented new member joins -- and all that gives me some hope.

Anyway -- Max said he'd take more care with his work before posting. Maybe some other people got that message too. And I've seen that these threads sometimes cause a little spike in critiques, so I don't think it was unnecessary at all.

Some people just don't want to acknowledge the elephant in the room. So I appreciate that you started the thread.

Cheers.
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  #158  
Old 03-03-2015, 01:38 PM
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Wow. So much to read, so little time to read it all in.

Interesting. Very interesting. One of the things I found most interesting, actually, is Max's continual "call to order" when the thread has gotten off track with insults and what not, and it's actually gotten back on track for the most part. (Though certainly we can do without a lot of the bickering back and forth. On the other hand, though, no one's going to get along with everyone else all of the time, and we can disagree with each others' points, and debate them, so long as we don't directly call one another . . . well, you know. And I've seen a couple of posts here that kind of come close to that -- please reel it in for the sake of everyone's sanity.)

Anyway . . .

Risk10 - yet the crits were "I enjoyed this" or "keep going you have a great idea here". Nothing was offered in the way of helpful critique.
Please, if and when you ever see something like this, especially in the Write Here section, please do report it. We mods and admins can't be everywhere at once, and it's helpful to know who we need to squash and say "Nope. Try again." I, for one, relish those moments, actually. Yes, I enjoy telling new members (kindly) that one-liners are a no-go here. I just can't spot them all the time.

JoeMatt – If it's written well enough, it actually takes less time to read something that is several thousand words and comment on those aspects of it than to trudge through a few paragraphs riddled with errors and generally bad writing and try to note everything that needs fixing.
I totally agree with this. I read something the other day that was high up in word count and was a complete pleasure to read. It took no time at all. It's when my mind stumbles on word after word, phrase after phrase that I just want to give up reading whatever it is. I used to make mention of this in many critiques, I just haven't had much free time to do so lately.

Max – that leaves us with flash fiction and it's very demanding even for a English speaking writer. there can be no extra words, descriptions, character development, and may other things are pared to the core.
Which can totally suck. Some flash fiction can be great. Others . . . well, it's hard to write.

JoeMatt – So, yeah, if you want good feedback (that's a collective "you") -- quit fucking around and put some time and effort into your work and your critiques. It's pretty much that simple. The more people that do it -- the better the forum.
Agreed.

Shelly – well then, (as Miss Warwick used to sing) "walk on by."
Crap. Now I have that song stuck in my head.

Shelly – Max, about your meds... some advice...you need to increase or decrease dosage: a black man differs from a woman.
I'm pretty sure you're missing his point there.

Enrigo – It is unfortunate that there are so many that come here who prefer to be told what is wrong rather than learn how to figure out for themselves what is wrong.

Max – you can't fix something if you don't know what is broke.
And these two comments totally go together. How can we figure out what's wrong with something when we don't possess the right knowledge in the first place on how it's supposed to be correct? We need to be told and shown by those who know what they're doing. And if you're questioning whether or not someone knows his/her stuff, look it up to verify. In fact, when we look something up to see how it's done, we're being told and shown how to do it, straight from the source -- reference book or what have you. A mentor who knows what he/she is doing could/would just become the voice for that reference book.

JoeMatt – There's no reason this can't be a tag team effort, with people helping out where they think they can do the most good with the time they have.
Thank goodness someone's said this. Someone can work with those who have little experience in the writing craft (with the very basics), while others can work with those who have some experience (i.e. intermediate) but need to be elevated to the next level in their striving to become professionals. We have have our strengths and weaknesses, and we can all learn from one another as well as teach one another things.


Risk10 – There have been some ridiculous comments throughout this, but I do note an absence of any moderator feedback or comment. Perhaps this is telling me something after all.
Such as . . . ?

Shelly – The SPAG Workshop isn't as effective as it ought to be (Twenty one posts in almost a year).
You're kind of correct here, mostly because I haven't had the time and energy to put into the SPAG Workshop. I'm actively seeking a new head for the Workshop, and no, I'm not going to recruit "just anyone." In other ways, the Workshop has actually been very helpful for those looking specifically to learn the basic mechanics of the writing craft. We don't need to make it more complicated for those seeking basic assistance.

Now . . . kudos again to Max for reminding everyone to stay on topic here. Let's do that. And if you can't, please consider leaving the discussion.
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Last edited by Devon; 03-04-2015 at 01:43 AM..
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  #159  
Old 03-04-2015, 01:19 AM
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I view the SPaG workshop as a very brave experiment that hasn't succeeded. The challenge to overcome is the atrocious effort-reward ratio for the volunteers who do all the heavy lifting. I've got nothing but admiration for those people, who do something I would never even consider volunteering for.
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Old 03-04-2015, 03:25 AM
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("...readers will be happy to know that the admin is now doing something about the recent infestation of "writertypes" in our pristine offtopics section here..." went the goblin, explaining "...in fact, a certain behaviour, known as "grooming' perhaps, has long been that cement that maintains that social cohesion intact both amongst primates born in the wild and of these writertypes upon writer's forums below, simply one presents one's body in real life or a body of text here for the next one to nitpick away from it, not that the goblin himself ever went in for that behaviour though, saying "...grooming is not my my thing for I can forgive the inconformity of mistakes but I never comfortably forgive the conformity of correctness, for example any perfect ending is quite predictable as there is only one absolute perfect here whereas the imperfect ending just keeps those readers guessing doesn't it, so a small number of mistakes are good where and when it is you by it...", thus it was that "to err is to be human" much as they say, adding "..ah, but to err bigtime should be really be left to us goblins now)

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Old 03-04-2015, 04:39 AM
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This site isn't in decline. Saying it is is an insult to every "brilliant" member (and there are quite a few). It has just been invaded by many newbies who enjoy seeing their work in print, as every body else does.

When patience and gentleness and joy have been extracted from teaching, then who wants to be learned anyhow? (I know...I know, this is not a kindergarten and posters ought to do "this and that" and "these and those" and some other stuff if they ever want my critique or if they ever want to become serious writers like "us."

They'll always be superstars emerging from the minors...the crop is never ending. Just be patient and wait for a few to arrive...and have no fear. None of the old stars will be benched.

I think this place is great...there are many talented writers who offer so much. It's like being in a gold mine, just search for the gold...it's there...and stop wasting time picking up rocks...which happen to be there too.

:O :O

An army of writers or an army awaiting the bugle charge...

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  #162  
Old 03-04-2015, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
I view the SPaG workshop as a very brave experiment that hasn't succeeded. The challenge to overcome is the atrocious effort-reward ratio for the volunteers who do all the heavy lifting. I've got nothing but admiration for those people, who do something I would never even consider volunteering for.
You can teach grammar with writing, but it takes time and usually requires spoken interaction as well -- explanation in real time. That's what you get in a classroom environment. I don't think you're going to have much success with marking up a particular piece of writing -- not as a one-off thing. I think it would take a lengthy exchange and you would have to work through lots of samples or exercises -- and that's not going to happen here.

But I agree -- kudos to the people who volunteered to take it on. I wouldn't have the patience for it.
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  #163  
Old 03-04-2015, 02:23 PM
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It's not easy, especially when a writer asks for help, gets it, and still makes tons of mistakes, mechanically. They need repetition, and yes, interaction. But with some, it does eventually stick. And they're better for it. Writing-wise, I mean. Lol.
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Old 03-05-2015, 03:30 AM
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Most of the work in fiction is the beginning of something longer. The fly by nights usually just pop in to see if anyone actually thinks their work is worthwhile carrying on, whether there's a decent story there etc.

Sometimes when you're dipping your toe in the writing world a few words of encouragement, rather than an in depth review, are all that's needed. People's writing, spelling, structure etc, will invariably improve over time anyway. If the poster is going to carry on writing that is.

In my case it did. Thanks to this group I've risen from depths of the abysmal, to the dizzy heights of mediocrity
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  #165  
Old 03-05-2015, 09:34 AM
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to the dizzy heights of mediocrity
It IS dizzying, isn't it??
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  #166  
Old 06-08-2015, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Thanks to this group I've risen from depths of the abysmal, to the dizzy heights of mediocrity
The heights don't make me dizzy.

It's the distance to the ground.

Oops. I think I just necromanced a dead post.

Sorry, guys.
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Old 06-09-2015, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
-snip- I think I just necromanced a dead post.

Sorry, guys.-snip-
("...could get serious just watch out or you'll be necromanising you own posts too..." went the goblin adding "...it's when you start your post to the words repost from elsewhere I imagine...")
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