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November 8, 2016

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  #1  
Old 11-09-2016, 10:46 AM
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Default November 8, 2016


November’s triumph
common people made it true
we will make it work

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Old 11-09-2016, 02:58 PM
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It seems, overnight, bein' a old white guy in America just got cool again.
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:11 PM
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Aye not cool again. This appears to me one of the purest manifestations of evil of our time. It is far more than simple disregard of the truth but the gleeful contempt of it.

There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, as an error which proceedeth from the ruler: Folly is set in great dignity, and the rich sit in low place. I have seen servants upon horses, and princes walking as servants upon the earth.

Edit: There is a line from Sin City spoken by Senator Roark that goes: Once you got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts aint true you've got em by the balls.

Second Edit Ill correct my earlier statement. This is one of the purest manifestations of evil of our time. It is far more than simple disregard of truth or gleeful contempt of it but a rageful and petulant endorsement of the basest instincts of mankind. It is below bestial because the animalistic element of our nature is bereft of rationality and consciousness and so is excused from the courts of morality. Sentient beings in exercise of their faculties cannot be excused of their acts without denigrating the entire species. The appeal to ignorance or of personal circumstance as extenuating factors in one's absolute disregard for others cannot be allowed for it presupposes an inherent superiority in the individual over others at best and casts the Other as Rene Girard defines it as subhuman and not worthy of care.

I recall Kubrick's Barry Lyndon who in the ultimate expression of his nobleness in sparing his stepson lost the title of a noble.


I should state at least one justification of my reasoning. Several friends of mine Viktor and Dark Major, among others, pilots in the Ukrainian Army will most likely die within the next year due to Trump's affinity with Putin. His avowal to recognize Crimea as a part of Russia, his promise to lift sanctions on Russia, will do nothing but encourage Russia to continue in its aggression to conquer the Ukraine and the former Soviet satellites. I doubt it will stop there.

Last edited by bluewpc; 11-09-2016 at 04:48 PM..
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Old 11-09-2016, 06:34 PM
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nick,
we are getting down with our bad selfs
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Old 11-09-2016, 06:37 PM
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blue,

You must be so young or stupid. You have not more idea of the truth than a fly looking at the moon. You use big words but have not idea of meanings. Good luck in a world where good is simple and evil is complicated.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:12 PM
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I'm 28 and considering your complementation of my earlier comments I find you in self-contradiction of your estimate of my intelligence. Nor do I find reasoning behind your estimation other than the fact that I have esteemed an act to be evil, which I did briefly qualify from a personal perspective and can qualify further from others.

Nothing in this world is simple. Perhaps not in any world. Neither good nor evil. What is Iago if not ineffable? What is Lear? Or Macbeth? Or Ahab? Did Milton's Satan not have much to recommend him? What is charismatic, what has the power to charm is not necessarily good.

The claim against Clinton that she is corrupt or a liar flies in the face of logic. We understand people through the congruity or incongruity of their stated motivations, their stated ends and their actions. We observe BLM and note that while they claim that black lives matter they only protest when one of their community is killed by law enforcement not by their own thus we can understand their movement to be a rebellion against state power. Likewise when claims are put forward that Clinton is dishonest by the advocates of Trump, whose lies have been legion and well documented, we can reliably assume that their stated reasoning for voting for him are false.

Likewise you have contradicted yourself in agreeing with me on the content of your poems thus I invite you to withdraw that agreement and state that I was in fact incorrect about them. Specifically these comments:

I agree with all you said, that was what the haiku was about. In order, to have freedom choices must be made especially hard ones. Haiku forces brevity.

Well put. I have said freedom without responsibility is anarchy. Today it seems to me that there is very little personal responsibility and that is a very dangerous situation for us all. The reasons for this devolving are myriad.

Edit: I did not wish to lose the paragraphs above and so posted. To continue and to take an ontological perspective on this I would like to speak about lying. I adopt as my credo this from Solzhenitsyn: You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.

I will as disclaimer say this: Clinton was not without her faults but they were none so much as they were made out to be.

The lies of Trump have been well documented. The willful blindness towards facts has also been well documented. I will be posting them here in the days to come as I will not have it be said that I made claims without evidence. In the meantime I proceed under the general presumption that this lying is generally understood and accepted and move on to the ontological and I believe also the epistemological subject.

For every lie a man speaks he is divorced from part of his soul. The more he lies the more he must give up. I am a process server. I serve documents for the court. This ranges from injunctions, foreclosures, divorce papers, evictions, writs of summons, oral interrogatives, wage garnishments, etc. I have been employed in this profession for nearing six years now. Out of a hundred cases seventy will accept, twenty will be bad addresses and the ten will be people who evade service. Often in this ten percent of cases I will have people respond that the defendant does not live at the address, this is easily proven or disproven, and in the cases of the latter in a very perverse way I have been told the truth. Because the defendant has denied so much of their life that they can no longer claim ownership of that personhood. They exist as entities that go to and from work, if they have work, and otherwise recluse themselves to their homes. Not to interact with anyone or anything. Suspicious of everything, hostile to everything. And so are reduced to the level of high functioning animalism.

So do I view the people who have elected Trump.

Third Edit for the same reasons as above I wished to save my work, however I have changed the word endorsed to elect, in the immediately preceding line.

The stated motivations and ends of the electorate match neither their actions nor the reality. In fact I will reiterate my statement again that there has been a gleeful contempt of the truth in keeping with the worst of fascist apathy and far left willful blindness. Those who have slandered Clinton for perceived violations of the law have done so quite unironically when they have endorsed a political insider who has admitted to donating to both parties to curry political favor, has evaded taxes, refused to release his taxes on the basis of an oft repeated lie, has demonstrable ties to Russia (which considering is my area of expertise I will be expanding upon in this thread in the days to come and goddamn any accusations of hijacking the thread I will state them and if I am blocked of this thread I will PM you or find out your email address and email and post those emails on this site, as I refuse to be accused of making baseless accusations) has demonized immigrants, legal or illegal, demonized indiscriminately people of the Muslim religion, of which I am no fan, whether they be citizens or not, threatened first amendment rights through the expansions of libel laws and undermined the judiciary by threatening judges.

Fourth edit Links basic things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSE-XoVKaXg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op7PKNCH65A

http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/donald...ntion-clinton/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...o-with-russia/

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...38169073,d.amc

In fairness to the immediately preceding article here is his explanation of it:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...ukraine-226497

To proceed:

http://www.newsweek.com/putins-advis...nctions-518942

Fifth edit Here is another congruency between Trump and Russia

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politi...ists-families/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/wo...-families.html


Edit Six: Should I after tea and cake and ices have the strength to force the moment to its crisis but though I have wept and fasted wept and prayed though I have seen my head grown slightly bald brought in upon a platter I am no prophet and heres no great matter I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker and I have seen the eternal footman hold my coat snicker and in short I was afraid.

Last edited by bluewpc; 11-09-2016 at 08:56 PM..
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Old 11-10-2016, 07:29 AM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Foster
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Old 11-10-2016, 08:02 AM
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And I return to do as promised. First off I've been presented with a wonderful opportunity, I think in jimmymc's comment which I am interpreting as him implying that the Clinton's killed Mr. Foster but if I am wrong in that assumption than I apologize. Nevertheless I feel this is an opportune moment to elucidate my views. The accusation of murder has been disproven many a time and a simple link can suffice to do away with it.

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11761128/vince-foster

However as I said this presents a good opportunity to study soviet propaganda techniques as, if my above assumption is correct, this falls under that doctrine. Specifically it is an instantiation of this method of attack:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_yo...nching_Negroes

Wherein no defense is proffered of wrongdoing but a false equivalency is attempted to be established in the mind of the audience thus exculpating the wrongdoer, in this case the republican electorate.

But this argument also incorporates a second strain of Soviet propaganda in its paranoia and conspiracy theories. Well use as our case study the downing of MH17 in which we also elucidate a third method. First though a little introduction about this example. MH17 was a passenger jet shot down over Russian controlled territory in the Donbass region on 17th July of 2014.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/evidenc...issile/5394814

http://www.infowars.com/kiev-source-...ing-exercises/

These sources, open sources, and obviously contradictory though both assured of their truth are not immediately apparent to be part of the Russian propaganda apparatus but that is the point. In propaganda it is important that people never know the actual source of the information because then it could be held accountable.

Here is a list, comprehensive at the time, of the proffered theories and their disproval.

http://www.stopfake.org/en/the-most-...-conspiracies/

In this though we see a third method and that is in the bombardment of theories so that time and resources are taken up in disproving them. The goal being that the event or controversy will become OBE and cease to have relevancy. This may not happen here. Well see.

I would recommend for reading Timothy Thomas' report to STRATCOM Russia's 21st Century Information War: Working to Undermine and Destabilize Populations. I believe this is available freely online if it is not I will scan it and provide the PDFs. Secondly by the same author I would recommend The Evolution of Russian Military Thought: Integrating Hybrid, New-Generation, and New-Type Thinking.

Relevant to this discussion are several books Russia's Chechen Wars 1994-2000 by Olga Oliker and The Insurgency in Chechnya and the North Caucasus by Robert Schafer, Anna Politkovskaya's A Small Corner of Hell and A Russian Diary and lastly One Soldier's War by Arkady Babchenko. These books serve to fill in the cultural, military, and political background of what were dealing so that as this discussion goes on we keep ourselves from talking in a vacuum. Also recommending Journey of Our Time: The Russian Journals of the Marquis de Custine and Russia and The Russians by Geoffrey Hosking.

I will return in a little while and post the links that link Trump to Putin.

Last edited by bluewpc; 11-10-2016 at 08:32 AM.. Reason: #1 Accidentally pressed submit. #2 Correcting grammar in the first paragaph #3 Added two more books for histroical background
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Old 11-10-2016, 08:22 AM
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First - this is a haiku - it should say a lot in a few words - more about the feelings then the words. Clearly it accomplished that.

Second - wow, what a load of meaningless double talk.

After all is said and done, Ms. Clinton was and is guilty. She was and is a liar and a thief. Like OJ we all know it is true.

Trump won - Thanks be to God - accept it and move on.

Keep your job. You have no responsibility for being right or wrong you just deliver and walk away. It sounds right for you.

And remember this was just a poem.
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:02 AM
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@tor Actually my response was not prompted by your poem but by Nick Pearce's comment. So I apologize for not making that clear and for not addressing your poem as I should have done. Ill do that now.

I view this poem ambivalently. Form wise it is well done. The word triumph stands somewhat alone which gives it the feel of uncertainty as does the final determined line, we will make it work, which carries a slight undertone of the same. But Haiku's I've always felt for their ephemerality lend themselves to somberness.



@Pearce Next as I promised:

Here is Donald Trump Jr. talking about the family's business:

And in terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets; say in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia. There's indeed a lot of money coming for new-builds and resale reflecting a trend in the Russian economy and, of course, the weak dollar versus the ruble.

The full article can be found here: http://www.eturbonews.com/5008/execu...ew-emerging-ma

Next Paul Manafort was Trump's campaign manager who is now being investigated for his ties to Russia.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...n-ties-n675881

Manafort also advised Yanukovych, who reported directly to Putin. He was ousted during the Maidan riots during which he ordered his police to fire on unarmed protesters.

http://www.politifact.com/global-new...er-and-his-ti/

Anne Applebaum noted today in an editorial in the Washington Post that while Trump has changed his stance on nearly every issue except his stance towards Russia. He states he will recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea, lift sanctions, and denied that Russian military units are occupying the Donbass region.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-russia-226292

Russia's own operations in influencing the election are an open secret and no longer debated in the intelligence community. The involvement of the GRU (Russian Military Intelligence cousin to the FSB and OMON and the MVD, which all evolved from the KGB and the NKVD which came out of the Chekists under Lenin) also points to him being Putin's man.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...7a0_story.html

As I am keeping this brief I would note that Trump once boasted about having met Putin and then later denied it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhy-xQbQ14s see 02:25

@tor I would also point out before signing off that our words are of the utmost importance and it matters not through which medium we articulate our ideas. Our words are a reflection of ourselves always. As a poet you should know this. I am not calling for you to censor yourself or even to stop insulting me but to devalue the meaning of words is both nihilistic and post-modernist and I would go out on a limb and say you would not identify yourself as either.
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Old 11-10-2016, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
nick,
we are getting down with our bad selfs

Rip off them PC panties, folks. We are goin' commando for the duration.
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Old 11-10-2016, 01:53 PM
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Trump supporters got their wish and Hillary isn't going to be president. (I didn't want her as president either.)

It's just ironic that the man they are now celebrating doesn't share any of their beliefs or values.

He is not a conservative. He's godless and decadent, born with a silver spoon in his mouth. A pussy grabber, a con man and an opportunist, a quack promising a miracle cure.

You got what you wanted. In the meantime, you've been bamboozled by a soulless, piece of shit human being who is as fake as his orange tan.

Congratulations!

Last edited by Myers; 11-10-2016 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 11-10-2016, 02:05 PM
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Oh look! Another haiku appeared.

Hinky dinky doo
I think I just stepped in poo
What now should I do?

You're wasting your time with Tor. He's here on contract. A shill. Deal with the devil or the jebus, same thing. Let the Trumpty wear off a bit; It's all you can do.

Your BIG words are a waste in his threads. You could bring them to the intellectual table, however.
That's where we talk about religion and politics without couching them in inane haikus.
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Old 11-10-2016, 03:00 PM
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what I expect from aimless losers.
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Old 11-10-2016, 03:28 PM
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[QUOTE=Myers

A pussy grabber, a con man and an opportunist

[/QUOTE]


Ah, so he is part Bukowski, eh?
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Old 11-10-2016, 03:40 PM
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A lot of us have a little Bukowski in us.

Otherwise, I love his poetry and a couple of his novels, but I don't think I'd want him as president.
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Old 11-10-2016, 03:42 PM
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A peace is of the nature of a conquest; for then both parties nobly are subdued, and neither party loser.
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Old 11-10-2016, 03:45 PM
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@tor @pearce am I to understand that the ultimate objective of this election was the license to drop any pretense of civility towards your fellow men?

And before you answer know that I served in the USMC as an 0311 and cross trained as an 0331 in 3/8 Kilo Company and was stationed at Camp Lejeune. I was a volunteer EMT-B for two years at Station 7 in Anne Arundel County MD off of 424. If military and civil service and basic human decency are not in themselves cause for respect, as thus far my respect for you as persons has gone wholly unreciprocated, what in your eyes does qualify a person for that respect?
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Old 11-10-2016, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
A lot of us have a little Bukowski in us.

Otherwise, I love his poetry and a couple of his novels, but I don't think I'd want him as president.

He states, more than once, that no leader can show you the way.

I take that as indication the job is the personal province of each individual.

Dzogchen, anyone?
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Old 11-10-2016, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bluewpc View Post
@tor @pearce am I to understand that the ultimate objective of this election was the license to drop any pretense of civility towards your fellow men?

And before you answer know that I served in the USMC as an 0311 and cross trained as an 0331 in 3/8 Kilo Company and was stationed at Camp Lejeune. I was a volunteer EMT-B for two years at Station 7 in Anne Arundel County MD off of 424. If military and civil service and basic human decency are not in themselves cause for respect, as thus far my respect for you as persons has gone wholly unreciprocated, what in your eyes does qualify a person for that respect?


You may have misread Mr. Pierce. He's a bit cagey. You're wasting your time with Tor. Where Nacia is a pretty bowl of pink flowers being blown around a room as you frantically try to sweep them up and put them back, Tor is a chimpanzee. Uses tools? Yes! Feeds himself? Yes! Throws shit? Yes! Understands the finer points of intelligent conversation? No!
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Old 11-10-2016, 04:14 PM
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www.writersbeat.com/showthread.php?t=58881
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Last edited by Nick Pierce; 11-10-2016 at 04:18 PM..
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Old 11-10-2016, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post

Nick?

Oh hey, Mr. Pierce.
What's up?

Nick, I clicked on the link and read the piece and ... Nick, I sometimes don't have words to illustrate my reactions to your writing.

Aw, don't sweat it, Pierce old pal.
I just put stuff out there to get it out of in here.
Helps keep my heart clear.
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Old 11-10-2016, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
what I expect from aimless losers.
Look, I get why people voted for Trump. And I don't think they're all racist or misogynists etc. I do agree with the idea of bringing in an outsider and the concept of "draining the swamp" etc.

But based on his actions, behavior and his words, I think there's good evidence to back up my assessment of him as a human being.

Maybe you did what you had to do. But instead of celebrating, maybe you should at least acknowledge you had to turn a blind eye to his values or lack of them and otherwise sell a little piece of your soul to put him in office.

And if it makes you feel better to call me an aimless loser for saying so, that's not surprising. Seems like the kind of knee-jerk reaction you might expect from someone who is suffering from this kind of cognitive dissonance. I won't be losing any sleep over it.

Last edited by Myers; 11-10-2016 at 05:23 PM..
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