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do we love religion?

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  #91  
Old 08-31-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
I think the issue with peodophilia is not so much the priesthood because anyone out can be an abuser, it is the idea of putting children and adults together in a congregation for a long a period of time that contribute to it ie facilitate it.
Any large congregating together in the name of anything risk getting abused.
Single sex schools and other institutions are prone to abuse.
There has got to be lessons learned and changes are long due and no one out there is suggesting anything which I find even more concerning.
What is one doing about it is the question because it is not going to go away anytime soon.
That's wrong.




Much of the priesthood, bishops, cardinals and now indications that Pope Francis allowed and encouraged the abuse.



The Catholic church may wither more than some here think evangelicals will because if there is not a housecleaning, many Catholics will stop going to church, and stop supporting the sin with their tithes.

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Old 08-31-2018, 08:55 AM
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God is already dead. Nietzsche was wrong when he wrote that book. A return to judaeo/Christian values did help Americans in the 50’s and 60’s, but it won’t be of use to a man in 2218.

This whole right wing Christian fundamentalist thing is in its last gasps. It’s what an organization does when it’s faced with extinction. It militarizes. It hardens and becomes combative, self-protective, isolationist, and then finally dies.

The Godless commies predicted the end of religion, especially in the USSR. The church in Russia? Once again on the uptick.
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:58 AM
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is this satire, you decide for yourself https://babylonbee.com/news/pope-sta...be-antichrist/
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Old 08-31-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
That's wrong.




Much of the priesthood, bishops, cardinals and now indications that Pope Francis allowed and encouraged the abuse.



The Catholic church may wither more than some here think evangelicals will because if there is not a housecleaning, many Catholics will stop going to church, and stop supporting the sin with their tithes.


Donít kid yourself... church attendance is down across the board. Itís the same thing as the illegal immigrant argument: put kids into American society naturally and they will not choose to be religious in any capacity. You can ďindoctrinateĒ them and some of it will stick, but itís waning in modern timesóeven with evangelicals.
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Don’t kid yourself... church attendance is down across the board. It’s the same thing as the illegal immigrant argument: put kids into American society naturally and they will not choose to be religious in any capacity. You can “indoctrinate” them and some of it will stick, but it’s waning in modern times—even with evangelicals.

... the nature of global religion isn’t static - the nature of humanity isn’t static - it’s fluid, ever evolving
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:37 PM
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Old 08-31-2018, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by anna View Post
... the nature of global religion isnít static - the nature of humanity isnít static - itís fluid, ever evolving


Were are one cataclysmic event away from an ignorant reversion to myth and legend, but until then...
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  #98  
Old 08-31-2018, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Were are one cataclysmic event away from an ignorant reversion to myth and legend, but until then...


please can you explain what you mean - Iím putting the kettle on for tea
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  #99  
Old 09-01-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick
Were are one cataclysmic event away from an ignorant reversion to myth and legend, but until then...



Originally Posted by Anna please can you explain what you mean - Iím putting the kettle on for tea

brian is trying to say that if a some cataclysmic event - a great flood, an earthquake, a war, something that shakes modern western types from their cozy comfort comas that they might just turn back to a religion, and specifically Christianity, which brian finds ignorant.
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  #100  
Old 09-01-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
brian is trying to say that if a some cataclysmic event - a great flood, an earthquake, a war, something that shakes modern western types from their cozy comfort comas that they might just turn back to a religion, and specifically Christianity, which brian finds ignorant.


Sort of, but with less of the opinion that western civilization is in a ďcozy comfort coma.Ē And... no, itís not specifically Christianity. Itís all religious ideologies. Iím not saying that religion canít be useful in ways, it has value for some, like fiction and rock and roll have value for some, but Theyíre not necessary.
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Old 09-01-2018, 01:41 PM
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I'm reminded of the missionary who goes to some primitive tribe out in the jungle, to tell them about Jesus. He explains to the chief about the love of God, and Jesus, and that he will go to Hell unless he is saved.

The chief gets very sad, and the missionary tells him, "But that's good news! You can be saved!"

The chief tells him, "I was thinking of all the people who will go to Hell because they never heard of Jesus."

The missionary reassures him, "Oh, if you didn't know about Him, God won't send you to Hell," to which the chief responds sadly,

"So, why did you tell me?"
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  #102  
Old 09-01-2018, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Sort of, but with less of the opinion that western civilization is in a “cozy comfort coma.” And... no, it’s not specifically Christianity. It’s all religious ideologies. I’m not saying that religion can’t be useful in ways, it has value for some, like fiction and rock and roll have value for some, but They’re not necessary.
On reflection it does strike sometime that may be just may be religion is fiction.
There is no such thing as god or the son of god. What would become of humanity if they come to realise all these religious thoughts and ritual is just a big fat lie. What then?
Just a thought.
One has to consider all options and this is one of them.
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  #103  
Old 09-01-2018, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
On reflection it does strike sometime that may be just may be religion is fiction.
There is no such thing as god or the son of god. What would become of humanity if they come to realise all these religious thoughts and ritual is just a big fat lie. What then?
Just a thought.
One has to consider all options and this is one of them.

Some folk have no spiritual or religious persuasion - or interest. They'll often wave an airy hand to 'science' for answers - not having any notion of what those 'answers' are yet assuming they're infallible and provable in some quantifiable way that makes religion seem naive. They can rattle off the shortcomings of religious dogma - but know nothing of the alternatives they measure it against.

Other folk rarely ponder anything outside of their own tiny and pointless sphere of existence - pointless because, in the grand scheme of things, our life span is as short as a mayfly - and they perceive human endeavour with the same simplistic formula as animals : eat, shit, reproduce and die.

Some folk have an innate sense of enquiry - needing a higher level of consciousness - aware of humanity being something more than just corporeal properties - learning from all belief systems and perhaps finding something that has a resonance with them - even if it doesn't fit in the mould of a 'leading brand'. Others flourish within established religions - happy and fortified by their particular faith.

The last group mentioned have the interesting conversations - the sort of debate that encourages growth rather than animosity.

And you're right Nacia...."one has to consider all options"...yet people never do on these types of threads. They'll spout what they reject but can't frame what they believe.

Cynicism only ever sounds clever to a dim-witted audience.
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  #104  
Old 09-02-2018, 03:47 AM
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Seems like you left out one the groups that aren't part of the interesting conversations; the self-righteous, sanctimonious believers, many whom haven't and never will "consider all options," who don't consider that you've been through your own process of inquiry and investigation and come to different conclusions...
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  #105  
Old 09-02-2018, 04:53 AM
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@E.Zamora

A fair comment - you're right.

To be honest, UK lacks any religious zeal - we don't have anything to compare to the Bible belt or TV evangelicals - our education is neutral unless people choose to pay privately for denominational education. The occasional Jehovah's Witness knocking at the door...

Yeah, I forgot to mention the zealots and peddlers...
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  #106  
Old 09-02-2018, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
@E.Zamora

A fair comment - you're right.

To be honest, UK lacks any religious zeal - we don't have anything to compare to the Bible belt or TV evangelicals - our education is neutral unless people choose to pay privately for denominational education. The occasional Jehovah's Witness knocking at the door...

Yeah, I forgot to mention the zealots and peddlers...
Yes, I've only encountered two of those types from the UK online. I can be that specific, because it was so unusual.

Of course, the non-believers can be zealots too and every bit as obnoxious. One of the things they do that strikes me as funny is how the claim they are constantly being assaulted by proselytizers in real life; the favorite phrase is, "having religion shoved in my face."

I can't think of the last time or situation where anything like that happened to me. Even the rare knock on the door; I smile and politely say, sorry, not interested. They say, OK and God bless you etc. and no harm done. The girl scouts pushing their cookies are a lot more annoying..
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  #107  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post

To be honest, UK lacks any religious zeal - we don't have anything to compare to the Bible belt or TV evangelicals - our education is neutral unless people choose to pay privately for denominational education.
Sweeping statement. You clearly haven't encountered the Orange Order.
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  #108  
Old 09-02-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
The Dogís Arse Messiah was hounded off this forum by religion haters and knuckleheaded mods. Which goes to show thereís more hate than love in religion.

I was wondering how someone would find salvation inside a canines anus. Then I remembered ....


but I also thank you for your gracefulness in resolving that issue.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
Some folk have no spiritual or religious persuasion - or interest. They'll often wave an airy hand to 'science' for answers - not having any notion of what those 'answers' are yet assuming they're infallible and provable in some quantifiable way that makes religion seem naive. They can rattle off the shortcomings of religious dogma - but know nothing of the alternatives they measure it against.

Other folk rarely ponder anything outside of their own tiny and pointless sphere of existence - pointless because, in the grand scheme of things, our life span is as short as a mayfly - and they perceive human endeavour with the same simplistic formula as animals : eat, shit, reproduce and die.

Some folk have an innate sense of enquiry - needing a higher level of consciousness - aware of humanity being something more than just corporeal properties - learning from all belief systems and perhaps finding something that has a resonance with them - even if it doesn't fit in the mould of a 'leading brand'. Others flourish within established religions - happy and fortified by their particular faith.

The last group mentioned have the interesting conversations - the sort of debate that encourages growth rather than animosity.

And you're right Nacia...."one has to consider all options"...yet people never do on these types of threads. They'll spout what they reject but can't frame what they believe.

Cynicism only ever sounds clever to a dim-witted audience.

Three gold stars for Grace. I've thought a lot about the reality of God. How did we get here? How can there be a God?



I can contemplate the Big Bang Theory, and evolution, and still come back to: There had to be a starting point somewhere. To me, whether you strictly believe the creation/genesis story or believe in something else, something had to create everything out of nothing. Perhaps it's because I can't wrap my head around the vastness of the universe and the complexity of Earth being accidental and undirected.
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  #110  
Old 09-02-2018, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
@E.Zamora


To be honest, UK lacks any religious zeal - we don't have anything to compare to the Bible belt or TV evangelicals - our education is neutral unless people choose to pay privately for denominational education. The occasional Jehovah's Witness knocking at the door...

Yeah, I forgot to mention the zealots and peddlers...



Why do you think that is? Did all the fervor expatriate itself to the colonies, and what became the United States in particular?



And why hasn't anything filled that void, or is there something filling that void?
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Old 09-02-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Why do you think that is? Did all the fervor expatriate itself to the colonies, and what became the United States in particular?



And why hasn't anything filled that void, or is there something filling that void?
Britain used to have a strong (albeit foisted upon the nation) Christian identity. Two world wars obliterated most of our beautiful old churches the length and breadth of the country. Few buildings and little heart left to worship God in the face of destruction and war's atrocity. Millions of young men lost and a country in mourning opened the doors to spiritualism particularly - contacting the departed in the hope of closure about how they died or maintaining a link to someone otherwise lost. Grief elevated spiritualism from a parlour game to a creed and comfort.

Worldwide travel and the influx of immigrants brought new religions to Britain and many of these took root and also veered off as Anglicised corruptions -blending into unique and personal forms of spiritual understanding. We went through a wave of 'independent personal growth' for want of a better expression - dabbling with meditation, the whole New Age era of communing with the Universal Mind....

Britain has always been strongly pagan - going back to our earliest Christianity, the working classes were excluded from church services because of our perversity to deliver everything in Latin. The uneducated attended services to meet the requirements of squires - but didn't understand a word being said. Their own rural superstitions and pagan beliefs remained intact and flourished covertly - bursting back on the scene later in our New Age phase.

We have a huge cultural diversity in UK which tries to rub alongside each other - an education system that will not promote religious belief unless it is a designated denominational school. The kids bring home letters seeking parental permission for children to attend Christian Christmas services, Diwali celebrations and cultural visits to temples and mosques - alternatives provided for those who decline. Schools will herd pupils elsewhere if discussions about christmas gifts or Ramadan are not sanctioned as a welcomed exposure by the parents. I don't feel this is necessarily helpful - ignorance and silence is not the same as cultural understanding and acceptance.

Britain has a lucrative spiritual industry - perhaps less about defining a god and more about defining ourselves and giving life meaning. The sense of independent choice and not subscribing to the tenets of organised faith is key. Family time is short with working days getting longer - we have a huge percentage of people who will still describe themselves as Christian, despite opting out of church because it consumes hours we don't have to spare. Others have caveats that keep them away from organised worship - perhaps accepting the life and teachings of Christ but equally having convictions about reincarnation...we don't fit in tick boxes anymore Mo, I guess.
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Old 09-02-2018, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Three gold stars for Grace. I've thought a lot about the reality of God. How did we get here? How can there be a God?



I can contemplate the Big Bang Theory, and evolution, and still come back to: There had to be a starting point somewhere. To me, whether you strictly believe the creation/genesis story or believe in something else, something had to create everything out of nothing. Perhaps it's because I can't wrap my head around the vastness of the universe and the complexity of Earth being accidental and undirected.


I too cannot actually imagine how something was created from nothing. So, mathematically, everything in the universe we live in was once contained in something as small as a marble. I understand the math is pretty solid. What the math doesnít tell us is where the marble came from and why it went ďbang.Ē I choose to believe that one day the math will figure this question out without the need for an intelligent creator, but I could be wrong. Im pretty sure a literal reading of any religious text wonít be the answer, but Iím equally sure that they were never meant to be taken literally anyway. Almost all religious texts seem to be deeply psychological manuals for maintaining sustainable cultures and/or societies, with advice on personal relationships and personal growth. Some are more understandable to us than others (as westerners). They are all products of the people and times in which they were conceived and written. Why some have lasted so long and others faded rather quickly, I donít know.

There does seem to be an evolutionary desire or need for something beyond us here nowówhatever form it takes. Religion, exploration, creativity/art, science, hedonism, or any other thing that drives humans to advance (or at least feel like we are advancing) themselves beyond their current places in life. So, what is that drive? Itís a good question. Why canít we stay in small communities where we evolved to be? Why are there people who pop out of almost nowhere and shove the rest of us down a path to something else? Is that a good thing, or should we resist change, globalism, multiculturalism, light speed communication, and all the rest of it? And (more to my personal belief), could we stop it if we wanted to? Or are we on this path whether we want it or not? Again, I think we are. I donít think we can stop the train. Sometimes I think about some of the mezzo American tribes at first contact with the Europeans. Did they want the change to come? Could they have stopped it if theyíd wanted to? Doesnít seem likely. So, can we stop the changes happening in our cultures/societies? I really just think we canít. Itís going to happen with or without us agreeing to it.
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  #113  
Old 09-02-2018, 05:51 PM
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I think if we dispense with the words 'God' and 'Religion' - there is an intelligence behind life. Nature is not haphazard - and the construct of the natural world is breathtaking in its beauty and intricacy. Science can offer a rational explanation of how the universe expanded over 13 million years or so - but it doesn't account for the existence of the neutrons, electrons and protons needed to facilitate this expansion and sudden animation - or what set the chain of events in motion. The universe is only the furthest reach of our imagination - what's outside of that?

The Genesis definition of creation is the same as the big bang theory - the only difference being sophistication of expression. The spontaneous creation of neutral atoms made it possible for light to finally permeate the pitch black after an estimated 380,000 years of darkness. All the ingredients for life contained in primordial soup that eventually became the separated light and dark, sea and land...the only real difference it seems, is that religion ascribes an architect whilst science lists the builder's materials.

And this is where, for me, the interesting conversations lie - when people are not forced to combat the denigration of something deeply personal to them, they'll talk about why their belief wholly or partway satisfies their enquiry - because nothing on the table is provable.

I'm in agreement with you BP - there's something intrinsic in human nature that continually strives to advance...what are we reaching for or trying to connect to?

It's ironic that we obsess about creation, yet all our advancement is in the ability to annihilate it all ....
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  #114  
Old 09-03-2018, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
I was wondering how someone would find salvation inside a canines anus.
If you truly believe God made the world and everything in it, then that includes a dog's anus. Perhaps your faith is lacking?

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
but I also thank you for your gracefulness in resolving that issue.
Wish I could say the same for you.
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
If you truly believe God made the world and everything in it, then that includes a dog's anus. Perhaps your faith is lacking?





Wish I could say the same for you.


Are you implying that all of us should have sex with dogs? Why, thatís bestiality, and last I checked illegal. Donít know what you English are into, but here in the land of streets paved with gold we frown upon that kind of blasphemy.
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Are you implying that all of us should have sex with dogs? Why, thatís bestiality, and last I checked illegal. Donít know what you English are into, but here in the land of streets paved with gold we frown upon that kind of blasphemy.
I thick you are grasping Brian. Do we have to debate your silly little pastime?
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
I thick you are grasping Brian. Do we have to debate your silly little pastime?


Iíve never fucked a dog... but when I was young we had this golden retriever. She was so hot. I didnít, but there were thoughts. I think they may have been a product or my Irish/English heritage, dunno. Yeah, pretty sure it was a corrupt gene from you English. Is there a lot of that sort of thing over there?
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  #118  
Old 09-03-2018, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Are you implying that all of us should have sex with dogs? Why, thatís bestiality, and last I checked illegal. Donít know what you English are into, but here in the land of streets paved with gold we frown upon that kind of blasphemy.
Sex? Who mentioned sex? Try some bromide in your tea, you sick fuck.
And if you call me English again Iíll shit on your shoes.
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Awaiting the return of the Dogís Arse Messiah.
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Old 09-03-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
Sex? Who mentioned sex? Try some bromide in your tea, you sick fuck.

And if you call me English again Iíll shit on your shoes.


English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, what eví

Ainít thee all the same by now? May fight over chunks of rock but theyíre all born of the same mother, no?

I would try the tea thing but tea sucks. Canít abide.
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Old 09-03-2018, 02:41 PM
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I can totally appreciate the beauty, wonder and complexity of the the world.

When and if there are discoveries that tell us how it all came about and if there are practical applications based on the knowledge, that will all be well and good. Glad there are people looking into it.

And maybe there's an unseen intelligence behind it, maybe there isn't.

Without evidence, I don't see a lot of practical value in all this pondering and navel gazing abut creation. But if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out.

Regardless, we're all here, and we got here somehow, so let's make the best of it.
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