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Is secularism providing an adequate alternative to organised religion?

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  #1  
Old 09-21-2018, 02:47 PM
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Default Is secularism providing an adequate alternative to organised religion?


Well? Is it?

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Old 09-21-2018, 03:56 PM
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No. I think to provide an “adequate” alternative we atheists would need to slaughter a few million indigenous peoples (are there that may left?), indoctrinate generations of helpless children in to the atheist army, and bugger hundreds of thousands of young boys (permanently scarring them for life). Oh, we could also flat a few thousand public intellectuals for not seeing it our way.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
No. I think to provide an “adequate” alternative we atheists would need to slaughter a few million indigenous peoples (are there that may left?), indoctrinate generations of helpless children in to the atheist army, and bugger hundreds of thousands of young boys (permanently scarring them for life). Oh, we could also flat a few thousand public intellectuals for not seeing it our way.
I think someone may be somewhat biased?
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:13 PM
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How do you mean by secularism?
I don't get it sorry.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
How do you mean by secularism?
I don't get it sorry.
The separation of government and religion principally. But that also bleeds into a secular society, clearly.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
The separation of government and religion principally. But that also bleeds into a secular society, clearly.
Ok.
Chinspinner are you religious? or even born into a religious family?
I am told Americans are all religion driven. Correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
Ok.
Chinspinner are you religious? or even born into a religious family?
I am told Americans are all religion driven. Correct me if I am wrong.
I am an atheist, but I have a lot of time for Christian/Anglican history
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
Ok.

Chinspinner are you religious? or even born into a religious family?

I am told Americans are all religion driven. Correct me if I am wrong.


Yeah, Chinspinner is an authority on America. Him and his mates.
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Yeah, Chinspinner is an authority on America. Him and his mates.
As much as I appreciate the joke.. probably more so than 50% of Americans, because the subject actually interests me.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
As much as I appreciate the joke.. probably more so than 50% of Americans, because the subject actually interests me.


Probably considerably more than 50%
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:55 PM
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Hey, wouldn’t it be funny if you and Nacia were actually neighbors? She might be that girl down the block, you know, the one with the half drunk bottle of Boone’s Farm, the giggly one.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Hey, wouldn’t it be funny if you and Nacia were actually neighbors? She might be that girl down the block, you know, the one with the half drunk bottle of Boone’s Farm, the giggly one.
I think she would be lovely in very short doses... if you know what I mean
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:02 PM
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What a tosser^ sorry Nacia, you are always fun; just us being silly arseholes. Sorry.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:05 PM
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She’s probably sitting adjacent, at the cafe, looking at you as you type nonsense and thinking, “what a dreadful, hairy savage; he can’t be British; must be one of them Muslim blokes. I’ll order some more wine and pretend he’s not there.”
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
She’s probably sitting adjacent, at the cafe, looking at you as you type nonsense and thinking, “what a dreadful, hairy savage; he can’t be British; must be one of them Muslim blokes. I’ll order some more wine and pretend he’s not there.”
Well, thx for the clarification. allahu akbar Brian
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
Well, thx for the clarification. allahu akbar Brian


A couple more bottles and she’s yours... maybe send one over to the table? And... wipe the coffee cake crumbs off your chin—for God’s sake, have some pride, man!
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:34 PM
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you lost me?
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
you lost me?


Really? Hmm... that rarely happens to me.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Really? Hmm... that rarely happens to me.
Brian, you need to listen to some more Genesis mate. It might learn you some stuff.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:02 PM
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https://youtu.be/EOK1Y4GJnMc
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:03 PM
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Clearly a God-botherer deflecting attention Brian!
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Yeah, Chinspinner is an authority on America. Him and his mates.
LOL now that's an achievement.
I think I want to be Chinpinner's mate now.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
What a tosser^ sorry Nacia, you are always fun; just us being silly arseholes. Sorry.
LOL not to worry I will come for a drink anyway
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
I am an atheist, but I have a lot of time for Christian/Anglican history
What is special about Anglican history?
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:45 AM
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Is secularism providing an adequate alternative to organised religion?


This is an awkwardly worded question that can go in any number of directions.


Let's say that you belong to a religion that instructs you to take care of the poor.


Can a secular government take care of the poor?


Yes.


Let's move on. Do you believe in Heaven, Hell, and the condition of your soul? If your answer to that is yes, then a secular government or a secular society can not take care of that.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post

This is an awkwardly worded question that can go in any number of directions.


Let's say that you belong to a religion that instructs you to take care of the poor.


Can a secular government take care of the poor?


Yes.


Let's move on. Do you believe in Heaven, Hell, and the condition of your soul? If your answer to that is yes, then a secular government or a secular society can not take care of that.
You sound like Peterson; "would you like a drink?"... "first we must define 'you' and 'drink'"
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
You sound like Peterson; "would you like a drink?"... "first we must define 'you' and 'drink'"

You provided the a definition of secularism as the separation of of government and religion. The phrasing of your question indicates that the two are exclusive of each other.


It was clear to me what you meant, and my reply did ask the definitions.



I gave two scenarios and how in those scenarios a secular government could or could not be a substitute for organized religion - which was the stated intent.



If you have any confusion based on how I answered my scenarios then please ask and I will be glad to elucidate.
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Last edited by Mohican; 09-22-2018 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
What is special about Anglican history?
Good question. Churches. If no one ever watched The Day Today that will be lost on them.

But seriously churches and cathedrals... and the ability to be an atheist without repercussion. The Anglican tradition enabled a free, tolerant and secular society, in a manner that Islam, for example, has not (and even Christianity lags well behind).
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
You provided the a definition of secularism as the separation of of government and religion.



It was clear to me what you meant, and my reply did ask the definitions.



I gave two scenarios and how in those scenarios a secular government could or could not be a substitute for organized religion - which was the stated intent.



If you have any confusion based on how I answered my scenarios then please ask and I will be glad to elucidate.
Sorry, I used the opportunity for a cheap jab at Peterson. One moment.
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post

This is an awkwardly worded question that can go in any number of directions.


Let's say that you belong to a religion that instructs you to take care of the poor.


Can a secular government take care of the poor?


Yes.


Let's move on. Do you believe in Heaven, Hell, and the condition of your soul? If your answer to that is yes, then a secular government or a secular society can not take care of that.
To take your last point first. I am an atheist, so the idea of some post-death realm is all horseshit to me.

Returning to your earlier point; a secular government requires via the collection of taxes that you take care of the nameless poor without your consent, which leads to resentment. It does not provide a community in which you would choose to take care of the poor. I think that is the best summation I can muster.
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