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Drugs and Immigration

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Old 08-18-2018, 10:13 AM
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Default Drugs and Immigration


Let me tell you a story. In 1988, back when the Hell's Angels controlled the meth trade in California, I had a friend in San Diego County who was fourth generation Italian -American, deep roots in San Diego, well liked by the Catholic fathers in the Mission system, by the Natives out on the rez, and by the old-time Mexicans.

I walked into his house one day, and three old Mexican men, who could have been anywhere from sixty to a hundred and ten years old, or more, stopped their conversation and looked to my friend for permission to proceed. He assured them that I was cool, and they proceeded to tell me what they were talking about.

They believed they could take over the meth trade in California, by switching over from the P2P-based recipe the HA used, to an ephedrine based recipe which was much cheaper and easier to produce. They would flood the market with this cheap shit, while staying ahead of the law by using pagers, meeting people on street corners and parking lots, and using illegals, because back then, if an illegal was caught with drugs, they just deported them, whereupon they would turn around, sneak back into the country, and be back in business before you knew it.

They had other things figured out, like how to disrupt the upward progression of investigations by the law, by having no permanent "Mr. Big." Rather, there would be a rotating cast of characters: Juan on a bicycle selling bags to the homeless; Carlos, with a Camaro selling eight-balls; Luis on the hill with a Porsche, selling pounds - but every so often, they'd rotate, and Luis would be moving bags out of a flea-bag motel, and Juan would be high-dollaring it, selling pounds. They figured, at that point, any law-enforcement investigations would have to start all over, chasing that non-existent local kingpin.

They also told me they planned on putting heroin into the meth.

"Isn't that kind of expensive?" I asked them, and they said, "Not to us, it isn't." And they explained why.

Real speed keeps you up for days, and when you run out, you simply go to sleep. They wanted something that would bring in money faster, and steadier. By putting heroin (or any other addicting narcotic) into the speed, they would cut down the duration of the high, making people want to buy more, sooner, and more importantly, after doing it for more than three days, there would be physical addiction, with painful withdrawals and the works.

When they were done (there was a lot more - these boys had spent a lot of time thinking about this, obviously), they asked me what I thought.

I knew what I thought - I thought, "Good luck getting past the HA," but I said I thought they had covered all the bases, and I got the hell out of there, never thinking that it would happen.

But it did. The HA sold out, or rolled over, or something -that's their business, not mine - and everything those old Mexicans said they were going to do, they did, and it has turned out exactly like they planned.

But that's not all. Before I left, they asked me if I was curious as to why they would embark on such an endeavor, and I told them, "Yeah - the money!" and they said that would be nice, too, but their main purpose would be the taking back of California. They considered California to have been stolen from them. They knew they couldn't take it back militarily, or by diplomacy, so they planned on getting it back by osmosis.

The plan with the cheap, heroin-laced meth was to "weaken the white male populace," as they put it. If they could get enough of the white boys on this shit, rendering them impotent, strung out on the street, in prison, or dead, then the jobs they once held, in farming, logging, construction, etc, would be left open for Mexican men to take, and once they were established, they would bring their families in, or start new families with the girlfriends of the white boys who were strung out, in prison, or dead. Eventually, they would be established well enough in the community to become a political force, making it easier for more to come in, and eventually they would be here in enough numbers that they, for all intents and purposes, would own the place.

This troubled me; I'm a local white boy, but I didn't think I was in a position to raise too much of an objection - I just wished them well and got the hell out of there.

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Old 08-18-2018, 04:45 PM
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Is it any coincidence that when we were nation building in Central America (1975-1985) that cocaine was the scourge of American streets, and now that we occupy Afghanistan, heroin has made a comeback?

This is a pretty good piece of writing but those Mexicans were wasting their time. The higher powers will decide how the lower-classes and useless are destroyed for profit.


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Old 08-18-2018, 06:28 PM
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Ah - but they weren't wasting their time. In the intervening years, the population of Mexicans in Humboldt Co. has grown rapidly (a thousand miles from Mexico, and they are the largest minority in the county, outnumbering the Native populations, who have always been here), and a basic requirement to work on a dairy farm in a county that is around 85% white is the ability to speak Spanish fluently.

Logging, farming, and construction jobs are dominated by or well represented by Mexican workers, and remember, this is nearly a thousand miles north of Mexico, and they make up maybe 10% of the population, women and kids included.

I'd say they're making excellent progress. An odd side effect is that, even though nearly 100% of the meth and heroin in Humboldt Co. is brought in by Mexicans, if anyone suggests that, they are shouted down as racist...by the same people who decry the effects of the drugs and call for the arrest of anyone supplying it - as long as they're not Mexican.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
Ah - but they weren't wasting their time. In the intervening years, the population of Mexicans in Humboldt Co. has grown rapidly (a thousand miles from Mexico, and they are the largest minority in the county, outnumbering the Native populations, who have always been here), and a basic requirement to work on a dairy farm in a county that is around 85% white is the ability to speak Spanish fluently.

Logging, farming, and construction jobs are dominated by or well represented by Mexican workers, and remember, this is nearly a thousand miles north of Mexico, and they make up maybe 10% of the population, women and kids included.

I'd say they're making excellent progress. An odd side effect is that, even though nearly 100% of the meth and heroin in Humboldt Co. is brought in by Mexicans, if anyone suggests that, they are shouted down as racist...by the same people who decry the effects of the drugs and call for the arrest of anyone supplying it - as long as they're not Mexican.


Youíre missing the bigger point. These Mexican immigrants are not an organized group of insurgents, but serfs controlled (and allowed) by powerful interest groups. The funny thing about any cultural group is that they are unstable when introduced to a country like the United States. After a couple generations they are Americans first and Mexicans secondóor not at all (or in name only). They would turn in a wet-back in a heartbeat if they thought the dude was going to affect their livelihood in a negative way.

So yeah, maybe California is browner these days, but they arenít going to take it back for Mexico. Theyíre keeping it for themselves and the rest of their fellow Americans.






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Old 08-19-2018, 02:17 AM
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But you're talking about legal immigrants. The majority here are illegal, and rather than become more American as time goes by, they build larger and larger communities isolated and insulated from the surrounding communities, and seem to have a hatred for Americans, unless we're providing them with money and a place to stay.

The legal immigrants hate them; they are proud of the fact that they took the time and did the work to become citizens, and feel like the wetbacks cheapen their accomplishments.

And no, they're not an organised group of insurgents, but beyond their personal advancement, I believe they all believe in the philosophy of the reconquista, and each one is happy to be a part of it.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:58 AM
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Startin' to see a bit of truth in the Trump Tirade.
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
But you're talking about legal immigrants. The majority here are illegal, and rather than become more American as time goes by, they build larger and larger communities isolated and insulated from the surrounding communities, and seem to have a hatred for Americans, unless we're providing them with money and a place to stay.

The legal immigrants hate them; they are proud of the fact that they took the time and did the work to become citizens, and feel like the wetbacks cheapen their accomplishments.

And no, they're not an organised group of insurgents, but beyond their personal advancement, I believe they all believe in the philosophy of the reconquista, and each one is happy to be a part of it.


No, no, Iím talking about the children and grandchildren of those immigrants (2-3 generations). Not sure about northern Cali, but where I live we get tons of illegal Mexican immigrants, and they are pretty much contained in well-known areas to live. Not because theyíre forced to, but because itís familiar there and easy to get around. Many of them are here to work and then go back to Mexico. They donít want to live here. Others who do and put their kids in American schools, participate in the American dream without realizing it maybe. But each generation away from the illegal immigrant creates more of an American than a Mexican. I work with tons of second and third gen guys who want jet-skis and McMansions in the suburbs, not to make this place little Mexico.


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Old 08-19-2018, 10:12 AM
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Oh, these guys want their toys and all the trappings, too, but they have no interest in becoming more American. They're here to bring their way of life (including prejudice against gringos) to a paradise not their making, and have no intention of going back.

There's a difference between those who come here to work, and those who come here to occupy.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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Old 08-21-2018, 03:52 AM
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Hmm. We had quite a few Mexican families in our neighborhood when we moved into it. Even though it was still "transitional," the rents weren't all that cheap, so most of them were of the type who who likely wanted to stay.

Not a very big sample I know, but I never saw anyone who wasn't becoming more American or resisting it, they were pretty much anxious to not only adopt the trappings but everything else.

True, they kept to themselves to a degree, but I think part of that was feeling like they weren't welcome, and in many cases, they weren't, and they were viewed with some suspicion, to put it nicely. We made the effort to include them and be friendly, and I never even remotely got the sense that they were prejudiced. Maybe some were, but how much of that is a reaction to feeling unwelcome or looked down upon?

Regardless, all their kids were automatically Americanized and the parents seemed to be following more or less by default.

I think it's all economic. Like my next door neighbor; his wife doesn't get out, so she speaks very little English, but he's started his own pool service company and they can literally afford to assimilate; and their kids are 100% American. It's inevitable.

Unfortunately as property values have increased, all the other Mexican families have moved out. Too bad, I thought they were good neighbors, at the very least, there was no evidence to the contrary.

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Old 08-21-2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
Hmm. We had quite a few Mexican families in our neighborhood when we moved into it. Even though it was still "transitional," the rents weren't all that cheap, so most of them were of the type who who likely wanted to stay.



Not a very big sample I know, but I never saw anyone who wasn't becoming more American or resisting it, they were pretty much anxious to not only adopt the trappings but everything else.



True, they kept to themselves to a degree, but I think part of that was feeling like they weren't welcome, and in many cases, they weren't, and they were viewed with some suspicion, to put it nicely. We made the effort to include them and be friendly, and I never even remotely got the sense that they were prejudiced. Maybe some were, but how much of that is a reaction to feeling unwelcome or looked down upon?



Regardless, all their kids were automatically Americanized and the parents seemed to be following more or less by default.



I think it's all economic. Like my next door neighbor; his wife doesn't get out, so she speaks very little English, but he's started his own pool service company and they can literally afford to assimilate; and their kids are 100% American. It's inevitable.



Unfortunately as property values have increased, all the other Mexican families have moved out. Too bad, I thought they were good neighbors, at the very least, there was no evidence to the contrary.


Okay, so what youíre saying is Proddy has a racial bias. Maybe he could use some cultural sensitivity training? Maybe a college level course in cultural diversity before he can be allowed to be a full-fledged American again?

Yeah, I agree.


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Old 08-21-2018, 08:09 PM
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Well, Proddy grew up in a county over 85% white, but our closest neighbor was a Cedillo, and my best friend growing up was a Yurok Indian.

The little town I grew up in (maybe 400 people) was populated with so many people whose dads or grand-dads had come from Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, or Texas that I grew up with a drawl, yet my family was the first to welcome the first black man in town, a Los Angeles transplant who arrived with his red-haired, white wife and two kids, and planted himself down on the main corner in town, in front of God and everybody.

We got a little bit of shit for it, but fuck them, he was a good man, and by the time he moved out, years later, everyone else agreed with us.

My oldest nephew's dad is a police officer in Atlanta, Georgia, who happens to be black. I've got Japanese-Hawaiian, Chinese, and Mexican cousins. Two of my step-kids are black. I get along with all of them, and coming from such a small, isolated area, appreciate the exposure they've given me to other peoples and other ways.

Relating what I've seen doesn't make me culturally insensitive, and to suggest so displays an ignorance of reality. I believe, based on what I've seen, that there is a movement to take back the Southwest (although they seem to be focused on California, the breadbasket), and I believe that the drugs and the flood of illegal immigrants (not the legal immigrants or workers referred to by E.Zamora or you, Tim) is part of it.

Things are much different up here than elsewhere. We are isolated from the rest of California by mountains, canyons and distance. People come here to disappear, and some people who don't, do anyway. It's a live-and-let-live kind of society, where you're unlikely to be turned in by a neighbor for breaking the law, because, odds are, they are too.

Illegal immigrants are scattered throughout the community. No one questions their status, so they can rent anywhere. Usually, though, whoever they're working for puts them up, and they tend to hang together (as would any of us, in a strange country).

None of this changes the fact that there is an agenda, and the drugs are part of it. Until people figure it out, no one will get a handle on it.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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Old 08-22-2018, 10:53 AM
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Hah. I never said Proddy has a racial bias. He seems reasonable enough to me, so I'll take him at his word.

I do know a lot people in my community who are racially biased. They do not like Mexicans, to put it mildly. The thing is, most of the problems they associate with Mexicans don't exist or they are ridiculously exaggerated.

We had a lot of apartments nearby with lots of Mexicans, and supposedly they were crime infested and the crime was spreading into the neighborhoods. Neighbors would be clucking because cops broke up a fight or a car was stolen. After those apartments were torn down, crime rates stayed exactly the same. And supposedly they were ruining the schools and you couldn't get seen in the emergency room etc. etc. All B.S. Not to say those problems don't happen elsewhere, but fascinating to see people just make them up where they're not happening.

But Proddy should do himself and everyone else a favor and not try to qualify himself with the old "some of my best friends are X" routine. I almost threw up a little in my mouth.

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Old 08-22-2018, 01:40 PM
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The world is made up of different races, different cultures (something I was trying to get at with my descriptions of my family and friends). Sometimes they work together, and sometimes, as a group, some of them work at things which are detrimental to other groups or individuals. To resist this is not racist, especially when what you're talking about is a nationality, not a race.

You can go back a hundred years, or two hundred, or three, or four, or as far back as you want, and you will find that the people in any one place did something bad to end up in that place. No one was welcomed with open arms to the land they now occupy; indeed, the Spanish took this territory from the Natives, who fought over territory continuously; the Mexicans took the land from the Spanish, and we in turn took it from them. The way it was going, had we not arrived on the scene, they would have lost it back to the Natives. It wasn't like this was their settled homeland - it was still controlled by the Apache, Comanche, and dozens of other groups of native peoples. So for the Mexicans to say that California was 'stolen' from them is pretty much the pot calling the kettle black.

So, three old men who happen to be Mexican tell me a preposterous story which comes true. If it had been another group of whites (say, the Russians) who had told me the same story, would I have been called a racist for relating it? I don't think so.

"Racist," and "bigot" have been thrown around so much lately that they have no more meaning, other than to indicate the person wielding them probably has not thought through what he's saying. Just because a person openly discusses some of the effects of the inevitable conflicts which arise when two cultures collide, does not make him a racist, and I feel that the calling of the racist card shuts down many discussions which, had they been allowed to happen, could have gone far towards reducing the amount of tension felt by both sides.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:11 PM
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I don't know who you're talking to. I'm not calling anyone a racist and I'm not doubting what you see in your own community. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you generally seem pretty thoughtful.

I'm talking about people in my community making up problems about Mexicans that don't exist; so no real "conflict," just the perception of it. I'll go out on a limb and say it happens elsewhere, or at the very least problems are often exaggerated.

I think it's a combination of brainwashing and yes, bias or prejudice.

So now we're not allowed to acknowledge this goes on with without someone claiming that you're playing the race card or that you haven't "thought through" things?

That seems pretty silly.

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Old 08-22-2018, 04:28 PM
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I was just yanking your chain Steve. I yanked your chain and put words in EZís mouth, and now I just feel terrible.

Okay, I donít really feel terrible (probably because Iím a sociopathic criminal according to chinspinner), but I will take responsibility for the community here now thinking that Proddy is a racist, and EZ is an SJW.

Iím going to have to repost this response in Fleaís thread and allow it to be part of the public record... letís see... Iíll need a picture to go with it.

Ah, hereís one:






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Old 08-22-2018, 04:31 PM
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I find it odd when people want an opinion on what they take... don't care...
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
I find it odd when people want an opinion on what they take... don't care...


Good to see you out of the penalty box. You missed the best thread (now closed) in which people wondered what happened to me while I sat in solitary. Mo closed it down because I think he felt like it might get out of hand. Not sure what that means; Iím always out of hand.


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Old 08-22-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Good to see you out of the penalty box. You missed the best thread (now closed) in which people wondered what happened to me while I sat in solitary. Mo closed it down because I think he felt like it might get out of hand. Not sure what that means; Iím always out of hand.


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Old 08-23-2018, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
I was just yanking your chain Steve. I yanked your chain and put words in EZís mouth, and now I just feel terrible.

Okay, I donít really feel terrible (probably because Iím a sociopathic criminal according to chinspinner), but I will take responsibility for the community here now thinking that Proddy is a racist, and EZ is an SJW.
Wait...I thought you were the SJW...and I thought I got called an SJW here recently somewhere...so what the hell is an SJW? Can we get a clarification?

Or is it a completely useless appellation, much like, "racist"?
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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Old 08-23-2018, 04:10 PM
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BTW, in regard to the OP, I'm not planing on doing either any time soon.
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
Wait...I thought you were the SJW...and I thought I got called an SJW here recently somewhere...so what the hell is an SJW? Can we get a clarification?



Or is it a completely useless appellation, much like, "racist"?


Well, there are SJWís in the world just like there are Naziís and racists, but neither you or I or EZ are one.




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Old 08-26-2018, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
Wait...I thought you were the SJW...and I thought I got called an SJW here recently somewhere...so what the hell is an SJW? Can we get a clarification?

Or is it a completely useless appellation, much like, "racist"?



https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SJW
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:25 PM
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To be fair, this is a biased definition. There are serious people who believe deeply that they are doing good in the world. And some of them are. In fact, social justice warriors started in the churches with groups opposing incarceration rates, and others fighting human trafficking, as well as more traditional concerns like poverty, hunger, access to clean water, etc.

I remember my mother-in-law calling herself a social justice warrior back in the early 90ís.

Itís become a pejorative term lately because a lot of idiots who really donít want to do anything but bitch have joined in.
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
I don't know who you're talking to. I'm not calling anyone a racist and I'm not doubting what you see in your own community. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you generally seem pretty thoughtful.

I'm talking about people in my community making up problems about Mexicans that don't exist; so no real "conflict," just the perception of it. I'll go out on a limb and say it happens elsewhere, or at the very least problems are often exaggerated.

I think it's a combination of brainwashing and yes, bias or prejudice.

So now we're not allowed to acknowledge this goes on with without someone claiming that you're playing the race card or that you haven't "thought through" things?

That seems pretty silly.

There are Mexicans/immigrants that are not trouble, and as pointed out they are typically legal immigrants.



The problem I see in these types of discussions, here at the 'Beat and otherwise is that people tend to lump legal immigrants and illegal immigrants together if they want to present illegal immigration in a good light.



Illegal immigrants make up a significant percentage of the Federal Prison Population https://www.fairus.org/issue/societa...riminal-aliens


https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/depar...94-percent-all


If you want to look at the problems of a border state: https://www.dps.texas.gov/administra...Statistics.htm
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:48 PM
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brian - that definition of SJW might seem biased to you, but I feel it is accurate as applied to the rank and file of today's SJWs.
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick
Good to see you out of the penalty box. You missed the best thread (now closed) in which people wondered what happened to me while I sat in solitary. Mo closed it down because I think he felt like it might get out of hand. Not sure what that means; I’m always out of hand....
chinspinner wan't in the penalty box, unless he shares a login/password with someone else......


If he was gone it was a self imposed banishment. or someone else on staff did it. (ghost of Tau or Bagit, lol?)



I remember back in the day when fact finding was an important part of investigative reporting, and sometimes to editorializing....
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Old 08-26-2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
chinspinner wan't in the penalty box, unless he shares a login/password with someone else......


If he was gone it was a self imposed banishment. or someone else on staff did it. (ghost of Tau or Bagit, lol?)



I remember back in the day when fact finding was an important part of investigative reporting, and sometimes to editorializing....


Naw, never to editorializing. Iím a master at editorializing and Iíve never needed facts to rail my opinions against.
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Old 08-28-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
There are Mexicans/immigrants that are not trouble, and as pointed out they are typically legal immigrants.



The problem I see in these types of discussions, here at the 'Beat and otherwise is that people tend to lump legal immigrants and illegal immigrants together if they want to present illegal immigration in a good light.



Illegal immigrants make up a significant percentage of the Federal Prison Population https://www.fairus.org/issue/societa...riminal-aliens


https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/depar...94-percent-all


If you want to look at the problems of a border state: https://www.dps.texas.gov/administra...Statistics.htm
Well, no, I'm talking specifically about people who won't or can't make the distinctions. Sure, I've heard lots of people differentiate between legals and illegals in some public discussion; what I'm talking about is where the rubber meets the road.

It's my assumption that people renting homes in my neighborhood were legal, it would be hard to do otherwise, but a lot of my neighbors just don't like the Mexicans anywhere near them, period, and they frame it up with complaints about things they claim are affecting us that you would associate with illegals; but they actually aren't happening to any significant degree -- and that's regardless of what goes on elsewhere.

I'm talking about how they were treated, excluded and talked about. What do you suppose drives that? I have my theories...
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Old 08-28-2018, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
There are Mexicans/immigrants that are not trouble, and as pointed out they are typically legal immigrants.



The problem I see in these types of discussions, here at the 'Beat and otherwise is that people tend to lump legal immigrants and illegal immigrants together if they want to present illegal immigration in a good light.



Illegal immigrants make up a significant percentage of the Federal Prison Population https://www.fairus.org/issue/societa...riminal-aliens


https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/depar...94-percent-all


If you want to look at the problems of a border state: https://www.dps.texas.gov/administra...Statistics.htm


You and Proddy have made this distinction between legal and illegal immigrants, but I donít do that. I know plenty of Mexicans that donít have papers, but their children and grand children are magnitudes more American than they are. Almost every Mexican American I know has a ďNanaĒ or ďPappiĒ who is or was an illegal immigrant (well, Reagan gave amnesty, so many of them are now legal). My point was and is that it doesnít matter if you come here illegally if you put your kid in our schools (culture). They turn American. Itís a testament to the greatness of American society/culture. Each successive generation becomes more American. So, three generations down the road there is no divide between us and them.

Sure, a lot of first gen illegal immigrants end up in jail for lots of reasons, but their kids and grandkids donít. I guess Iím seeing the net benefit here.

This whole xenophobic idea about people from elsewhere seems to me to be more a product of our own economic failures of late, than a legitimate concern.
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Old 08-28-2018, 11:30 PM
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[QUOTE=brianpatrick;748463]You and Proddy have made this distinction between legal and illegal immigrants, but I don’t do that. I know plenty of Mexicans that don’t have papers, but their children and grand children are magnitudes more American than they are. Almost every Mexican American I know has a “Nana” or “Pappi” who is or was an illegal immigrant (well, Reagan gave amnesty, so many of them are now legal). My point was and is that it doesn’t matter if you come here illegally if you put your kid in our schools (culture). They turn American. It’s a testament to the greatness of American society/culture. Each successive generation becomes more American. So, three generations down the road there is no divide between us and them. [/UNQUOTE]

Yes, this happens when a family wants to be American. Not all do. Like I said, there are some who want nothing to do with America - they want to return this land to Mexico, and they proudly resist being Americanized.

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
This whole xenophobic idea about people from elsewhere seems to me to be more a product of our own economic failures of late, than a legitimate concern.
There you go using a word that is so overused, to mean the wrong thing, as to completely vacate it of all meaning. Xenophobia refers to fear, or hatred, or prejudice, for no other reason than that someone is a stranger.

Point out that there is a problem with some illegals being deported over and over again, or never being deported at all, even though they're here illegally and continually commit crimes, and you'll be accused of saying ALL immigrants are criminals, and called a xenophobe.

There is a problem with some immigrants who see this as a different kind of land of opportunity, one where you can take what you want and suffer no consequences. Sure, there are American citizens who think the same way, but we're not talking about them here, are we? We can have a separate discussion about the prisons being overloaded because of the failed war on drugs, causing crime to go up because criminals know they won't be held long, but we can't not have this discussion just because we're not having that one at the same time.

It's like I try to tell the kids (or anyone else who will listen): Our job as men is to be the best that we can be, no matter what the circumstances. You don't look around for the lowest common denominator and say, "They're doing it - why shouldn't I?" You look for the highest example, and use that as a guide.

Not addressing the problems with illegal immigration just because there are other things that are problems, too, just sinks us farther into the quagmire. If it's prejudicial, or xenophobic, or racist to talk about issues openly, without reverting to misplaced accusations of prejudice, or xenophobia, or racism, then what the hell is it all about? Free thinking is part of what made us what we are. To shut that down by misusing appellations can only make us all dumber.
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Last edited by Prodigalson; 08-28-2018 at 11:32 PM..
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