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Mohicanís Miscellaneous Meanderings

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  #31  
Old 10-11-2016, 08:52 PM
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Oh, and if you hadn't noticed, this is a liberal leaning writers sight. As far as I know, all writers sights are generally left leaningóinclined toward inclusiveness.

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  #32  
Old 10-11-2016, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
First, we are not surrendering civilization to avoid social disapproval. That's just a ridiculous idea, and shortsighted. That's one of those 'talking points' or hidden meanings to express the desire to segregate all you 'good' people from us 'bad' people. It's an obvious ploy, so obvious, it feels silly to respond seriously.


If a person abandons his/her faith, morality, traditions to try to garner approval then it is abandoning their civilization. The fact that you find that ridiculous indicates that you are grounded in very little and there is no bedrock to your views.

To accuse a person you only know from an internet board of dealing in hidden meanings is to deal in hyperbole and nihilism. I'm plain spoken, and not given to hiding what I mean. Are you projecting your personal shortfallings on me or others?

BTW - I did a bit of searching on Alice Teller after your fevered, rambling comparison to David Duke and didn't find anything that led me to your conclusion.

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
'We don't want the gays because we disagree with their 'lifestyle.' We shouldn't have to serve them (in our businesses) or help them in any way because the Bible says...'


1. I do not agree with the gay deathstyle
2. The instances of people not wanting to serve them is very specific - ie not wanting to take part a gay "wedding" ceremony in any part.
3. I for one have never said the Bible says to never help gays. So if you are indicating this you are wrong. There is a difference between helping people and in sinfully corrupting holy matrimony.

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
'We don't want the Muslims, because they are different, a different culture, incompatible with ours. We can't make Christian laws because they won't like it. Plus, they want to kill or terrorize us.'


I understand that you are trying to direct sarcasm toward me, but this is a case of a blind squirrel finding an acorn. Orthodox Muslims are very rarely peacefully compatible with other faiths, Christian or otherwise.

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
''I don't mind the blacks, but the lazy good for nothing ones need to find another place to be. Maybe we could send them back to Africa where they came from, heh, heh.'


I've never said this so this must be another projection or a non thinking broad brush attack. I'll allow you the benefit of the doubt, that you were thinking of the 16th president of the United States when you wrote this.

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Intelligence and love are completely inclusive.

You are redefining love as acceptance of whatever. Inclusiveness, like tolerance often not a virtue. It takes some critical thinking and self examination to figure the differences out for oneself.

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
What would you do if you got a whole fresh country filled with people like yourself (or a close approximation)?
You'd have to find a way to deal with the rest of the world, or eventually be crushed by it. Think South Africa.


A whole fresh country of people like me would be pretty cool, efficient, in scale and nothing like South Africa, except for the Boer's penchant for efficiency. Mixed of course with a Scots Irish need for the occasional bout of indolence....


[QUOTE=brianpatrick;727344]And... if America became a nation of farmers and craftsmen and... blah blah blah... they would be squashed by the rest of the world or be in a perpetual state of militarization in their own defense. That world is gone. Would it be nice to have back? Sure, but it's not possible. [/QUOTE]

That's just silly. Would you have to have some heavy industry to support a defensive military? Of course. But moving toward an agrarian model would not weaken us in and of itself. It might lead to things like trade balance, a more sound economy. The US is the opposite side of this coin and rapidly becoming a hollow vessel.

I notice that we have discussions about effecting change, and I hear the herp a derp about the evil 1% and how do we defang them.

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Second... cowardliness is a word used by cowards to hide what they really are.
Can you shoot another man to defend your TV? Your car? Your wife? Sure you could. Does that make you brave?


...not if you're smart. It makes you defensive, reactionary, and incapable or love. Real love. Afraid. And scared people attract what they are afraid of.
Hmm, you have a multi point screed and finish by stating secondly....

It's late, instead of breaking this down, I'll borrow something applicable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c
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  #33  
Old 10-12-2016, 08:19 PM
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So... you don't agree with the gay lifestyle and think businesses should not have to serve gay clients w.r.t. their weddings (the denigration of Gods law on man and woman being the only choice). And... you think the Islamic faith incompatible with Christian faithóthese two can not coexist peacefully in the same space (a blind squirrel can still smell).

Well, that's enough.

Your avatar suggests an agenda that I hope you aren't harboring... Maxcrash suggested a change, but you may not have seen that.

I will say, if you grow roots, that makes you rigid, stuck in one place. I don't see the point in fixing yourself to one small piece of ground. Tradition and bedrock are blinders.

I understand how you don't see what love really is. Maybe some day you will experience something that forces you to see the light. Until then, I will keep pecking at that thick skull of yours.

Read what Jesus actually said, instead of espousing the interpretations of your chosen 'peers.'
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  #34  
Old 10-13-2016, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
1. I do not agree with the gay deathstyle
"Deathstyle." What does that mean to you exactly?


Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
2. The instances of people not wanting to serve them is very specific - ie not wanting to take part a gay "wedding" ceremony in any part.
I was a very vocal proponent of gay marriage, and even gave time and money to support the cause.

However, I'm torn on this issue. People have compared this to Jim Crow, and I kind of disagree. Unlike in the Jim Crow era, people have other choices and I think I would rather people just vote with their feet and go elsewhere for their wedding cake etc., especially considering the number of businesses that apparently have no problem accommodating gay people.

I also think the legal response in some cases has been way over the top. I can't see the fairness in putting someone out of business and into debt over this.

Now, I'm not the only person I know who feels this way and I have gay friends who will admit that they are torn as well, if I press them, but they're very reluctant to say so otherwise. In my opinion, certain members of the gay community can be very self-righteous and even vindictive. I've had people turn on me for even expressing any sympathy whatsoever toward people with different beliefs.

So if there was some wave of discrimination that regularly barred gay people from getting access to all kinds of services, then you do something about it. But I think that's highly unlikely, given prevailing attitudes. So yeah -- if someone won't make a gay wedding cake, let them suffer the consequences of the marketplace. If they go out of business, I won't feel too sorry for them. Otherwise, I think there's a lot of grandstanding on this issue and people going too far make an example of these wedding cake bakeries and photographers etc., and I don't think it needs to be that way.

P.S. Now that I've thought about this for a few minutes, maybe my thinking on this is influenced by the fact I live in larger city where there are lot of service providers and more liberal attitudes. It might get a lot dicier in small towns or rural areas where there are fewer options. But like I said, I'm torn...

Last edited by Myers; 10-13-2016 at 07:52 AM..
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  #35  
Old 10-13-2016, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
I understand how you don't see what love really is. Maybe some day you will experience something that forces you to see the light. Until then, I will keep pecking at that thick skull of yours.
What I've found is that people who oppose gay relationships and marriage are so constrained by religious belief and/or social conditioning, it's impossible for them to view a relationship between people of the same sex as loving and beneficial, never mind that it doesn't hurt anyone else or prevent them from living according their beliefs.

If they allowed their minds to go there, to acknowledge the love and really see these relationships for what they are, they just might have to question their beliefs. And they can't or won't do that.

The few times I've seen someone turn around on this is when a son or daughter turns out to be gay and they are forced to reevaluate. In the end, it was love that won out over irrational belief.

Last edited by Myers; 10-13-2016 at 01:54 PM..
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  #36  
Old 10-14-2016, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Your avatar suggests an agenda that I hope you aren't harboring... Maxcrash suggested a change, but you may not have seen that.'


You are truly unobservant and in no position to cast stones.

Max was concerned because the image in my current avatar had a congressional medal of honor. I took a look, conceded his point and adjusted accordingly.

Congressional Medal of Honor



Something that is not the medal of honor

This faux outrage of yours is indicative of your depth in all areas- or lack thereof. I will be kind to you to day and gently point out your error


Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
I will say, if you grow roots, that makes you rigid, stuck in one place. I don't see the point in fixing yourself to one small piece of ground. Tradition and bedrock are blinders.
You can believe that, I'm not stopping you.

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
I understand how you don't see what love really is. Maybe some day you will experience something that forces you to see the light. Until then, I will keep pecking at that wondrous cranium of yours.
Acceptance of things that you think are wrong is not love.

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Read what Jesus actually said, instead of espousing the interpretations of your chosen 'peers.'
In reading both Old and New Testaments it is clear that homosexuality is a sin. Unlike eating shelfish, it is not one of the unclean activities made clean by the new covenant. If you want to use a Bible and Jesus, (and you state you believe in neither) then you should be correct before you cast stones. You are wrong in assertion and interpretation. I am not relying on "chosen peers". Unless the prophets and the Apostle Paul are my chosen peers.......

I don't know if you don't understand, don't want to understand or deliberately obfuscate.

There are many things a Christian can do, in business and otherwise while interacting with a gay person/persons. There are also things that a Christian shouldn't do. The scriptures are clear about when charity stops and enabling begins.
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Last edited by Mohican; 10-14-2016 at 08:27 AM..
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  #37  
Old 10-14-2016, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I was a very vocal proponent of gay marriage, and even gave time and money to support the cause.

However, I'm torn on this issue. People have compared this to Jim Crow, and I kind of disagree. Unlike in the Jim Crow era, people have other choices and I think I would rather people just vote with their feet and go elsewhere for their wedding cake etc., especially considering the number of businesses that apparently have no problem accommodating gay people.

I also think the legal response in some cases has been way over the top. I can't see the fairness in putting someone out of business and into debt over this.

Now, I'm not the only person I know who feels this way and I have gay friends who will admit that they are torn as well, if I press them, but they're very reluctant to say so otherwise. In my opinion, certain members of the gay community can be very self-righteous and even vindictive. I've had people turn on me for even expressing any sympathy whatsoever toward people with different beliefs.

So if there was some wave of discrimination that regularly barred gay people from getting access to all kinds of services, then you do something about it. But I think that's highly unlikely, given prevailing attitudes. So yeah -- if someone won't make a gay wedding cake, let them suffer the consequences of the marketplace. If they go out of business, I won't feel too sorry for them. Otherwise, I think there's a lot of grandstanding on this issue and people going too far make an example of these wedding cake bakeries and photographers etc., and I don't think it needs to be that way.

P.S. Now that I've thought about this for a few minutes, maybe my thinking on this is influenced by the fact I live in larger city where there are lot of service providers and more liberal attitudes. It might get a lot dicier in small towns or rural areas where there are fewer options. But like I said, I'm torn...
The places that have taken a stand haven't gone out of business from market forces but from excessive civil suits and litigation. On the flip side, Christians have been discriminated against by atheist businesses and have found recourse.

As you note, getting a cake is not like being refused lodging because of race, religion etc. And so called liberal people can be very vindictive. It's not about "rights" but about forced acceptance.
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  #38  
Old 10-14-2016, 09:21 AM
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People in general can be vindictive.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has been discriminated against, denied the right to be married, labeled a sinner, or considered a deviant; or maybe someone who just wants to live a life and not have it labeled as a "deathstyle" because of some superstition.

Not saying it's right necessarily, but do you think all that might result in some resentment or wanting a little payback? I think it could. You kind of reap what you sow.

Last edited by Myers; 10-14-2016 at 09:26 AM..
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:42 AM
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If you "just want to live a life" then you just go on to the next option or just go on. I noticed that you did use "Payback" and not "Justice" which was a good choice on your part.

In the case of some of these people they had done business with those people for years but drew the line at providing services for gay marriage. They didn't reap what they sowed. You even noted that you have been given grief when you had the temerity in front of "liberals" to look at the other side of the coin.....

By referring to opposing beliefs - in this case Christianity - and labeling it as just superstition are you not then discriminating? By doing so it give cover to doing wrong in the opposite direction....
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:39 AM
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Hi Mohican.

Ever since you and I have known each other, I've wanted to ask you something and your recent posts kicked the question at me again.

As the Administration and also full time participant in many discussions do you ever feel a conflict of interest? wrc
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:44 AM
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Mohican, of course I used "payback," not "justice," specifically because I'm talking about human nature.

If you fuck with people long enough for no good reason, they just might get fed up and act accordingly. That's what I mean by "you reap what you sow."

And of course, I'm not talking about just the cake bakers, but a society that was conditioned to discriminate based solely on a religious belief.

And it's funny. You label people with different beliefs and their way of living as a "deathstyle," but you have a problem with me referring to your beliefs as a superstition...

If nothing else, this is pretty good entertainment.

Last edited by Myers; 10-14-2016 at 10:51 AM..
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  #42  
Old 10-14-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post

If nothing else, this is pretty good entertainment.


Agreed
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Old 10-16-2016, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Mohican, of course I used "payback," not "justice," specifically because I'm talking about human nature.

If you fuck with people long enough for no good reason, they just might get fed up and act accordingly. That's what I mean by "you reap what you sow."

And of course, I'm not talking about just the cake bakers, but a society that was conditioned to discriminate based solely on a religious belief.

And it's funny. You label people with different beliefs and their way of living as a "deathstyle," but you have a problem with me referring to your beliefs as a superstition...

If nothing else, this is pretty good entertainment.
Or based on tradition, tenets, and general observation discrimination was for a good reason....
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Or based on tradition, tenets, and general observation discrimination was for a good reason....
Of course. You can always find a good reason to discriminate. "General observation" and because the Bible tells me so are as good as any!

Last edited by Myers; 10-16-2016 at 10:45 AM..
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Or based on tradition, tenets, and general observation discrimination was for a good reason....


The thing is, biologically, discrimination is bad for both sides of the coin. It makes for conflict which will be problematic for all parties involved.
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Old 10-22-2016, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
The thing is, biologically, discrimination is bad for both sides of the coin. It makes for conflict which will be problematic for all parties involved.
this is a breathtakingly inane and meaningless comment. The same, to a bit lesser degree goes to Myer's snarky comment.

I don't know if you shoot for this level, but to borrow from ProdigalSon you have achieved a level of incandescence that is otherworldly.
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Old 10-22-2016, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
this is a breathtakingly inane and meaningless comment. The same, to a bit lesser degree goes to Myer's snarky comment.

I don't know if you shoot for this level, but to borrow from ProdigalSon you have achieved a level of incandescence that is otherworldly.


Pecking at that thick skull of yours😀

Sometimes the back door is the only door open.
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Old 10-23-2016, 05:55 AM
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Oh, come on Mohican. I do believe I've seen you employ snark from time to time. I realize when it's about religion people can be sensitive about it, but that's not really my problem. And I'm actually making a point. I'm not being snarky just for the sake of it.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Sometimes the back door is the only door open.
not interested in your preferences and peccadillos....
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
not interested in your preferences and peccadillos....


Sure you are. You responded didn't you? Back door.
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Old 10-28-2016, 06:09 PM
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President Obama claimed no prior knowledge that Comey was reopening the Hillary Email investigation. His spokesidiot says he saw it on the news just like everyone else....


Choice A. He's lying, which means he's made up his mind this late in the game that he doesn't want the Clintons back in the White House.


Or


Choice B. The FBI doesn't trust the President and pulled a very ballsy move.


I have also noted that Lorretta Lynch took the fifth about paying ransom to Iran....


The plot thickens....
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Old 10-28-2016, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Pecking at that thick skull of yours😀 .
Someday you may realize the futility of employing a limp piece of spaghetti against the diamond you are trying to crack.
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Old 10-28-2016, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Someday you may realize the futility of employing a limp piece of spaghetti against the diamond you are trying to crack.


Well at least you're not a crybaby.
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:32 AM
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As the 2016 election cycle drags on, secession looks better and better.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
President Obama claimed no prior knowledge that Comey was reopening the Hillary Email investigation. His spokesidiot says he saw it on the news just like everyone else....


Choice A. He's lying, which means he's made up his mind this late in the game that he doesn't want the Clintons back in the White House.


Or


Choice B. The FBI doesn't trust the President and pulled a very ballsy move.


I have also noted that Lorretta Lynch took the fifth about paying ransom to Iran....


The plot thickens....
Or, how about Choice C? The head of the FBI wants to throw the election to the fascist. wrc
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wrc View Post
Or, how about Choice C? The head of the FBI wants to throw the election to the fascist. wrc
Comey could have recommended an indictment - some of the information handling statutes do not require "intent" to prosecute so I don't put much stock in your question.
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Old 11-03-2016, 02:28 PM
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It really does just look like Comey was covering his own ass and that of his departments. All the rumors and innuendo on both sides is just silly. There's just no 'there' there.

It'll all be over in five days, after the landslide. We're going to get Hillary the place holder. Maybe next time someone can field a good candidate
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
It really does just look like Comey was covering his own ass and that of his departments. All the rumors and innuendo on both sides is just silly. There's just no 'there' there.

It'll all be over in five days, after the landslide. We're going to get Hillary the place holder. Maybe next time someone can field a good candidate
There is a lot of there, there. I'd give at least even odds of tRUMP winning, unless shenanigans.
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Old 11-04-2016, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
There is a lot of there, there. I'd give at least even odds of tRUMP winning, unless shenanigans.


Ha ha

I'll bet you five bucks. You can send it to me through PayPal when I win.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Ha ha

I'll bet you five bucks. You can send it to me through PayPal when I win.
Brian - don't worry about sending me money.....
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