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Sunday School is Mental Rape to Children

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Old 11-04-2016, 07:01 PM
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Default Sunday School is Mental Rape to Children


Sunday School is Mental Rape to Children

The human brain doesn’t stop growing until it reaches around 20 years. The mind begins to grow at birth and continues until death as it continues to experience life.

All human minds are extremely vulnerable to programming until they learn how to evaluate the ideas they are exposed to.

All religions have a Propaganda Department called Sunday School. That’s where children are spoon fed the stories which make up the bedrock of each religion. And for parents who are believers this looks like a good thing. After all, these parents were programmed the same way and while they may not realize their children are being brained washed, they support the outcome.

But there are also many former believers pretending to be believers. These people are the ‘fence sitters’ in the war between reality and religion. And yet, they send their children to the programming because they don’t have the will to walk away from a religion they no longer believe in. They pretend to be a believer every religious holiday. For fence sitter Christians that means going to church every Sunday to keep up appearances and sending the children to Sunday School.

When a parent sends their children to Sunday knowing what will happen to them this is a crime which has its own punishment. That punishment is to see the child they love turn into another dumbed down believer lost in the world.

Something to think about. wrc

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Old 11-05-2016, 03:01 AM
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Regardless of the belief or ideology or whatever they are pushing, zealots and proselytizers are just plain annoying. And here's why:

They tend to:

- use hyperbole and poor analogies;

- posses a morally and self-justified sense of superiority;

- oversimplify and present things in ways utterly lacking in subtlety, humor or irony;

- condescend to and underestimate their intended targets and/or ideological opponents;

- often preach to the choir to validate themselves and their beliefs;

- unintentionally alienate people who might be receptive to a less insulting or heavy-handed approach; and

- repeat themselves. A lot.

I may have left some things out, but I think that about covers it for now.


Last edited by Myers; 11-05-2016 at 04:41 AM..
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:45 AM
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Hi Meyers. Your post follows mine.

Your post accuses me of being a zealot. Here's the difinition: a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

I admit to being a zealot for rationality. And I am totally opposed to irrational bullshit. You throw a word at me (zealot) and think you are commenting on my post. But you actually said nothing about brainwashing small children by religions.

How about taking the time to deal with the issue I've raised. Stop attacking the holder of an idea to avoid talking about the idea. If you don't want to discuss how religions mentally rape small children with their sunday classes of irrational stories, just move on.

With respect for you I hope you have something to say about the issues I raised. wrc

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Regardless of the belief or ideology or whatever they are pushing, zealots and proselytizers are just plain annoying. And here's why:

They tend to:

- use hyperbole and poor analogies;

- posses a morally and self-justified sense of superiority;

- oversimplify and present things in ways utterly lacking in subtlety, humor or irony;

- condescend to and underestimate their intended targets and/or ideological opponents;

- often preach to the choir to validate themselves and their beliefs;

- unintentionally alienate people who might be receptive to a less insulting or heavy-handed approach; and

- repeat themselves. A lot.

I may have left some things out, but I think that about covers it for now.

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Old 11-05-2016, 08:07 AM
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Children are mentally raped by all sorts of garbage that is daily pumped into them. Would you prefer they were plonked down in front of a tv set, absorbing the cascade of advertising, propaganda, violence and sexual deviation that emanates therefrom? Singing a few hymns and listening to parables sounds quite wholesome by comparison.
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wrc View Post
Hi Meyers. Your post follows mine.

Your post accuses me of being a zealot. Here's the difinition: a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

I admit to being a zealot for rationality. And I am totally opposed to irrational bullshit. You throw a word at me (zealot) and think you are commenting on my post. But you actually said nothing about brainwashing small children by religions.

How about taking the time to deal with the issue I've raised. Stop attacking the holder of an idea to avoid talking about the idea. If you don't want to discuss how religions mentally rape small children with their sunday classes of irrational stories, just move on.

With respect for you I hope you have something to say about the issues I raised. wrc
It's a writing site, so I think the overall presentation is fair game and because it's about personal opinion, I feel no obligation to separate any criticism of that from "the holder of an idea." It's all you.

At first I thought "Sunday School" was a metaphor for all religious teaching or indoctrination, but you mean it literally.

The thing is, it starts when a parent and a child first say bedtime prayers and a child begins to form some simple idea of God. They are well primed by the time they get to Sunday school, and although society is becoming more and more secular, children are exposed to ideas about God and religion in a number of ways; like when a relative or pet dies, or by the "true" meaning of Christmas etc. etc.

As a parent and an atheist, I'm well aware of all those influences and dealing with them isn't all that easy, either for the parent or the child.

So sorry, when I see something that is so simplistic and that generalizes to this extent, I have a hard time taking it seriously.

You're not asking questions, you're not inviting comment or looking for any different point of view or angle, you're just climbing up on soapbox and delivering a banal and one-dimensional sermon, like this is your personal blog.

So who are you trying to reach anyway?

Atheists will agree with you to an extent. Believers will reject what you're saying out of hand. And I think most intelligent fence-sitters would be put off by your insulting delivery.

What I think you're looking for is approval and validation. Or you're trying to provoke believers so you can come at them with your usual and often repeated spiel.

If you're trying to change minds, which you may actual believe, you're not going to get anywhere. In the end, you come off like a zealot, and if nothing else, zealots are crashing bores.

Last edited by Myers; 11-05-2016 at 11:24 AM..
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Old 11-05-2016, 02:08 PM
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Hi flyingtart.

I agree that religions permeates cultures. But there's only one place where the intent is to spend every moment of a child's time is to brainwash them: Sunday School.

The amount of religion in any given culture differs. For example, the Scandinavian cultures seem to have less religion than the US.

In the US religions have managed to pass laws where they have a favored status. They pay no taxes. We reward them for brainwashing our kids!

I raised 3 sons. We limited tv viewing and rewarded reading. Comics then where teaching bad values, like they are now. No comics.

I believe that parents are the stewards of their children's future and being responsible for that is a full time job, often unrewarding.

And yes, there is worse brainwashing than religion. That doesn't give religion a pass, however. The most vulnerable age is when they are acquiring language and that's the age religion targets.

You said: "Singing a few hymns and listening to parables sounds quite wholesome..." For me it's not harmless because it's training in irrational thinking. If they successfully go on to efforts to be educated it becomes almost impossible to succeed because of that early brainwashing.

Thanks for your post. I do appreciate it. wrc

Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
Children are mentally raped by all sorts of garbage that is daily pumped into them. Would you prefer they were plonked down in front of a tv set, absorbing the cascade of advertising, propaganda, violence and sexual deviation that emanates therefrom? Singing a few hymns and listening to parables sounds quite wholesome by comparison.
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Last edited by wrc; 11-05-2016 at 02:11 PM..
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Old 11-05-2016, 02:38 PM
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Hi Myers. Your long post follows mine.

You said: "You're not asking questions, you're not inviting comment or looking for any different point of view or angle, you're just climbing up on soapbox and delivering a banal and one-dimensional sermon, like this is your personal blog."

It's true that I sometimes don't soften my statements by hiding them inside a pondering question. If you see me on a soapbox that's in your fantasy, not mine. What's simplistic about what my said? I see it as a complex issue. I hadn't thought of any of my posts as a personal blog. After all, I'm posting in a forum of writers and it's expected that there will be a discussion.

Once again you want want to talk about about the holder of the ideas and not the ideas.

You went on to say: "As a parent and an atheist, I'm well aware of all those influences and dealing with them isn't all that easy, either for the parent or the child."

It sounds to me that you agree with the ideas I put forth. If you have anything to add beyond your acceptance of the problem I look forward to hearing your POV.

wrc

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
It's a writing site, so I think the overall presentation is fair game and because it's about personal opinion, I feel no obligation to separate any criticism of that from "the holder of an idea." It's all you.

At first I thought "Sunday School" was a metaphor for all religious teaching or indoctrination, but you mean it literally.

The thing is, it starts when a parent and a child first say bedtime prayers and a child begins to form some simple idea of God. They are well primed by the time they get to Sunday school, and although society is becoming more and more secular, children are exposed to ideas about God and religion in a number of ways; like when a relative or pet dies, or by the "true" meaning of Christmas etc. etc.

As a parent and an atheist, I'm well aware of all those influences and dealing with them isn't all that easy, either for the parent or the child.

So sorry, when I see something that is so simplistic and that generalizes to this extent, I have a hard time taking it seriously.

You're not asking questions, you're not inviting comment or looking for any different point of view or angle, you're just climbing up on soapbox and delivering a banal and one-dimensional sermon, like this is your personal blog.

So who are you trying to reach anyway?

Atheists will agree with you to an extent. Believers will reject what you're saying out of hand. And I think most intelligent fence-sitters would be put off by your insulting delivery.

What I think you're looking for is approval and validation. Or you're trying to provoke believers so you can come at them with your usual and often repeated spiel.

If you're trying to change minds, which you may actual believe, you're not going to get anywhere. In the end, you come off like a zealot, and if nothing else, zealots are crashing bores.
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:38 PM
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Yeah, you're right.

Two things that are never a waste of time -- telling people what to believe and telling them how to raise their children.

Keep up the good work.
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Old 11-05-2016, 11:28 PM
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wrc,
While I applaud your desire to protect the young, I fear you underestimate their resilience. All but a feeble minded few will in time grow up to make their own choices. People are not robots and children are not empty vessels waiting to be filled by another's ideology.

If religion in the US really succeeded in brainwashing your kids to the extent you claim it would surely be a much more sedate place than it is?
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Old 11-06-2016, 01:50 AM
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People give up or drift away from religion for all kinds of reasons. Exactly zero of them is some guy on the internet telling them they are mind raping their children or who is otherwise playing into the stereotype of the angry, strident atheist.

I believe the way to do it is to calmly set an example in your circle of influence; meaning family, friends, neighbors, etc. And that mostly means being the rational, thoughtful person you claim to be.

That takes patience and the recognition that this kind of change is generational. But wrc, bless his heart, needs to feel like he is doing something NOW, regardless of how ineffective and counterproductive his approach might be. He readily admits that he's a zealot, but seems to be oblivious to all the negative attributes that come with it.

As an atheist, I probably feel something like your freindly neighborhood Presbyterian who comes across Jimmy Swaggart when he's flipping through the channels and thinks to himself, that guy does not represent me. It's annoying and frankly, a little embarrassing.

When it comes changing minds, next to setting an example, delivery is key. That's something that seems to be utterly lost on wrc.

Last edited by Myers; 11-06-2016 at 01:07 AM..
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:51 AM
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Show me on the doll where the bad Christian touched you.
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:49 PM
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It's not likely to happen, unfortunately, but I think religion should be banned until you are 18, because being brought up to believe something supernatural is true without any evidence and the inability and lack of maturity to understand the spiritual/reality disconnect is damaging to children. It's brainwashing. It's also why you get bemused expressions on grown up religious believers' faces when you ask them why they believe. They often have no idea.

I am also intrigued that we encourage kids to believe in Santa, fairies, goblins and all manner of magical creatures in their younger years and then suddenly tell them - if they are not alerted by other kids - that all these things don't actually exist, yet they are still encouraged to believe that God is real. There's no difference, in my opinion.

It's no wonder so many people are screwed up.
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Old 11-06-2016, 06:44 PM
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Hi SteveHarrison. You lifted my spirits with your post Thanks for writing it and sharing.

When we sat down and told our three boys that Santa Claus wasn't real they were sad. But they got over it. In was a first step to rationality. As adults they are fine people with finely turned bullshit detectors. And they make me so proud.

Thanks. wrc

Originally Posted by SteveHarrison View Post
It's not likely to happen, unfortunately, but I think religion should be banned until you are 18, because being brought up to believe something supernatural is true without any evidence and the inability and lack of maturity to understand the spiritual/reality disconnect is damaging to children. It's brainwashing. It's also why you get bemused expressions on grown up religious believers' faces when you ask them why they believe. They often have no idea.

I am also intrigued that we encourage kids to believe in Santa, fairies, goblins and all manner of magical creatures in their younger years and then suddenly tell them - if they are not alerted by other kids - that all these things don't actually exist, yet they are still encouraged to believe that God is real. There's no difference, in my opinion.

It's no wonder so many people are screwed up.
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Old 11-06-2016, 06:50 PM
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Hi flyingtart.

You said: "If religion in the US really succeeded in brainwashing your kids to the extent you claim it would surely be a much more sedate place than it is?"

I'm not sure sedate is the right word. How about mindless? Dumbed down? Uneducated? Irrational? I'm sure you get my drift. wrc

Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
wrc,
While I applaud your desire to protect the young, I fear you underestimate their resilience. All but a feeble minded few will in time grow up to make their own choices. People are not robots and children are not empty vessels waiting to be filled by another's ideology.

If religion in the US really succeeded in brainwashing your kids to the extent you claim it would surely be a much more sedate place than it is?
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Last edited by wrc; 11-07-2016 at 03:49 AM..
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Old 11-07-2016, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
Show me on the doll where the bad Christian touched you.
Very cute. I laughed. Thanks. So here goes...

"He touched me here. Pulled it out. Said God wanted us to do it." wrc
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Old 11-07-2016, 03:41 AM
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Hi Myers.

"When it comes changing minds, next to setting an example, delivery is key. That's something that seems to be utterly lost on wrc." you said.

Believe it or don't, but I tried your way for years. And I even had people tell me that I was the nice atheist. Someone once called me an atheist with a soul. I finally grew out of that approach. wrc
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Old 11-07-2016, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by wrc View Post
Hi Myers.

"When it comes changing minds, next to setting an example, delivery is key. That's something that seems to be utterly lost on wrc." you said.

Believe it or don't, but I tried your way for years. And I even had people tell me that I was the nice atheist. Someone once called me an atheist with a soul. I finally grew out of that approach. wrc
Really? Have you told your neighbors, coworkers and acquaintances etc. that they are mentally raping their children? If so, how is that working for you?

They're all thanking you and denouncing God in droves I bet.
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:28 AM
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Does the sun ever shine where you live?
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:35 AM
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And lo, a profundity drops to earth like manna from heaven.
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:46 AM
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Heaven (or spiritual plane) isn't upwards... increased vibrational frequency.
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
And lo, a profundity drops to earth like manna from heaven.
There are no facts to validate the 'heaven' concept so anything which falls from it is in your mind and not in the world. wrc
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Heaven (or spiritual plane) isn't upwards... increased vibrational frequency.
That's what she said.
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Heaven (or spiritual plane) isn't upwards... increased vibrational frequency.
Hey Cityboy, welcome back. As usual, your using your special logic of confusion. I knew I could count on you. What in the world is "increased vibrational frequency"? wrc
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wrc View Post
There are no facts to validate the 'heaven' concept so anything which falls from it is in your mind and not in the world. wrc
Here I thought since we were writers, we could use mythological elements and concepts as metaphor and that people wouldn't take it literally.

I guess I can cross that literary device off the list.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Really? Have you told your neighbors, coworkers and acquaintances etc. that they are mentally raping their children? If so, how is that working for you?

They're all thanking you and denouncing God in droves I bet.
Believers usually don't thank me for pointing out what they're doing to their kids. However, I seldom hesitate telling them unless they are a 300 lb. redneck with an uzi. wrc
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by wrc View Post
Believers usually don't thank me for pointing out what they're doing to their kids. However, I seldom hesitate telling them unless they are a 300 lb. redneck with an uzi. wrc
That doesn't answer the question.

I didn't ask if you pointed out what people are doing to their kids.

I asked that when you tell them they are mentally raping their children, how is that working for you?

Last edited by Myers; 11-07-2016 at 08:24 AM..
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Here I thought since we were writers, we could use mythological elements and concepts as metaphor and that people wouldn't take it literally.

I guess I can cross that literary device off the list.
Fantasy and Sci Fi are real genres with a wide following. But unless they have mental defect they know there are no current facts to validate the assertions.

A priest once told me that the story of christ was a metaphor. I agreed and said it's a metaphor for a make up story. We both laughed. wrc
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wrc View Post
Fantasy and Sci Fi are real genres with a wide following. But unless they have mental defect they know there are no current facts to validate the assertions.

A priest once told me that the story of christ was a metaphor. I agreed and said it's a metaphor for a make up story. We both laughed. wrc
I can see you are both people who are easily amused. But I'm not talking about metaphor as part of religion.

I'm talking about religious metaphor in fiction, poetry, film etc.

Can you see the difference?

I bet you could if you thought about it, so I won't bother to explain it to you.

And the phrase "manna from heaven" is a relatively common metaphor for an unexpected stroke of good luck, so it has taken on a completely secular meaning. I used it here for a touch of irony.

I'm really surprised that anyone who thinks of himself as some kind of writer would confuse any of this with "current facts" that "validate assertions."

I think you're trying too hard. Swinging for the fences and coming up empty.

(That's a baseball metaphor, in case there is any confusion on your part.)

Last edited by Myers; 11-07-2016 at 12:44 PM..
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
That doesn't answer the question.

I didn't ask if you pointed out what people are doing to their kids.

I asked that when you tell them they are mentally raping their children, how is that working for you?
I'm not sure it's working for me in anyway. I'm not even sure I understand your question.

But I do know that a seed has been planted in a believers mind. Will it grow? I don't know. wrc
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Old 11-08-2016, 12:15 AM
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Sunday school is no big deal. Everyone indoctrinates their kids one way or another. Everyone believes their own brand of indoctrination is better than anyone else's.
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