WritersBeat.com
 

Go Back   WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table

The Intellectual Table Discussions on political topics, social issues, current affairs, etc.


Dream "Visitations"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 12-08-2016, 11:04 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default


A vengeful God was a magnificent weapon to manipulate and to control the masses. God's true nature was revealed by Christ when He surrendered Himself on a tree. God is pure love. Don't fall for the plastic diamond.

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-08-2016, 11:32 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default

Just came to mind: within Native-American culture the medicine men kept in daily contact with the spirit world, and some of the plains tribes were the finest people on the planet. Rising to leadership of tribal chief depended on bravery or generosity. In Western culture being cunning or corrupt are major requirements for leadership. Maybe, Saul had it wrong. Maybe, we got it wrong.

Last edited by Cityboy; 12-08-2016 at 11:39 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-08-2016, 02:24 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Online)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,904
Thanks: 256
Thanks 618
Default Dream "Visitations"

https://youtu.be/tYKlroWeq7Y



Oh! Press that button, yeah?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-08-2016, 02:48 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
https://youtu.be/tYKlroWeq7Y



Oh! Press that button, yeah?
I just saw the title and figured I knew what was coming. But, that is what she believes and nobody is going to change her mind just as you will be unable to change the mind of a believer. And she is a lecturer, which means she does her thing to put a roof over her head and clothes on her back and food in her stomach. On that issue, she has every right to do so. Did you watch her video? What is at the heart of her lecture? If you can answer seriously, I'd like to know. But, I already watched my cartoons earlier and have reached my humor quota for the day.

Last edited by Cityboy; 12-08-2016 at 02:52 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-08-2016, 02:55 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Online)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,904
Thanks: 256
Thanks 618
Default

She is a he, and he agrees with you that our dead ancestors are still accessible and ever present.

His method of visitation is through the use of shamanic hallucinogenics. DMT and the tryptamine varieties.

This may not be the best talk about exactly that because he tends to wander a lot. Look up Terence McKenna on DMT experience.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-08-2016, 02:57 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Online)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,904
Thanks: 256
Thanks 618
Default

This is more to the point... sort of.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FfnIGmChAKE#
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-08-2016, 03:07 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Word Wizard
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 638
Thanks: 114
Thanks 137
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Just came to mind: within Native-American culture the medicine men kept in daily contact with the spirit world, and some of the plains tribes were the finest people on the planet.
According to who? Plains tribes were some of the most ruthless. Warfare included scalping, ritualistic torture, sometimes killing women and children.

Pre-European North America was no Eden. Cultures/tribes were often extremely violent, contrary to the myth of the noble and peaceful Native American.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-08-2016, 04:08 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Online)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,904
Thanks: 256
Thanks 618
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
According to who? Plains tribes were some of the most ruthless. Warfare included scalping, ritualistic torture, sometimes killing women and children.

Pre-European North America was no Eden. Cultures/tribes were often extremely violent, contrary to the myth of the noble and peaceful Native American.


Shhhh!

He's busy with Terence.😀
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:10 PM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,395
Thanks: 292
Thanks 584
Default

Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
Bass.

Don't you even look a bit like him?
I might look a little bit like Bass - I have the mustache down pat....
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:12 PM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,395
Thanks: 292
Thanks 584
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
According to who? Plains tribes were some of the most ruthless. Warfare included scalping, ritualistic torture, sometimes killing women and children.

Pre-European North America was no Eden. Cultures/tribes were often extremely violent, contrary to the myth of the noble and peaceful Native American.
If you were stuck walking around Kansas on a daily basis (pre horses) then you might be a bit testy, too.

It reminds me of a Indian Joke - Why did the Cheyenne Dog Soldiers ride Appaloosas? Because if you didn't feel like war before you rode toe battle, you did when you got there.
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.

Last edited by Mohican; 12-08-2016 at 05:25 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:21 PM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,395
Thanks: 292
Thanks 584
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
All I can tell you is that you are the boss. You set your own rules up for you and your family. You don't want to contact spirits, that's your own personal business. But, I know for fact-- spirit intervention has saved countless lives through warnings and by healing sick individuals. But, we all set up our own guideposts. And I'm not here to tell others what to do. But, I also wouldn't shun help--from this side or the other side.

But, an eye for an eye isn't what Jesus taught. He told His followers to turn the other cheek. Are you Jewish or Christian? If you are Christian, then, you follow the teachings of Christ. The Pharisees followed the same God as the One Jesus spoke about. But they distorted God for their own selfish needs. Christ even criticized the elders of the church, who also followed Saul's God. God is Love; love is God. One doesn't use or distort God because of one's love for money. Jesus saw right through the scam of the church elders who played the role of middlemen in order to profit off the people. That's why Jesus told His followers whenever they wanted to contact God in prayer, all they had to do was go into their own room and close the door behind them. Christ knew the elders were sucking the people dry playing the role as middlemen to get to God.

The golden rule taught by Jesus is the four-lettered word "Love." Aside from man's foolish rules, all that matters to Christ and to God is that we love God and love our brothers and sisters as we would want them to love us. Granted, it's not an easy rule to follow--but if you want to know God, you first have to know love. Again, not a simple task since the majority of us are self-centered or selfish or both. But, God is love. And love is God. Do that and you won't have any problems with God whether you agree or not about spirit communication.

How loving is God? God will see that all of us who are not evil or wicked will get to the right place afterwards whether we believe He exists or not. God is so merciful and loving that we cannot even grasp His love for every one of us. He won't punish us for spirit communication or even calling each other pricks, which we shouldn't do in the first place,
Your whole post ignores the fact that Jesus arrival, and death on the cross for our sins does not invalidate the ten commandments, or other injunctions unless noted.

Shell fish and pork - forbidden by the Old Testament, allowed by the New Testament.

Witchcraft and calling on familiar spirits - still forbidden in the Old Testament and New Testament.

Even after the death of Christ and the Gift of Salvation there were some spectacular punishments for misdeeds. Ananias and Saphfira come to mind.....
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:23 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Word Wizard
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 638
Thanks: 114
Thanks 137
Default

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
If you were stuck walking around Kansas on a daily basis (pre horses) then you might be a bit testy, too.
Sure.

But Native Americans were just human beings living according their own beliefs and cultural norms. And I'm sure, like all human beings, they could be good and bad and everything in between, but according their standards, not ours.

The "Noble Savage" myth is a vestige of the colonialist mentality. It's simplistic and condescending, even if people like Cityboy want to believe it's something positive.

It reduces complex cultures and societies to a stereotype. Never a good idea.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:27 PM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,395
Thanks: 292
Thanks 584
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Sure.

But Native Americans were just human beings living according their own beliefs and cultural norms. And I'm sure, like all human beings, they could be good and bad and everything in between, but according their standards, not ours.

The "Noble Savage" myth is a vestige of the colonialist mentality. It's simplistic and condescending, even if people like Cityboy want to believe it's something positive.

It reduces complex cultures and societies to a stereotype. Never a good idea.
Oh I agree with you. Louis La'Amour often commented that it was always a mistake to judge an Indian by a settlers standards - because their values and traditions were different. I think that applies to a lot of other cultures as well.
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mohican For This Useful Post:
Myers (12-08-2016)
  #44  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:34 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Your whole post ignores the fact that Jesus arrival, and death on the cross for our sins does not invalidate the ten commandments, or other injunctions unless noted.

Shell fish and pork - forbidden by the Old Testament, allowed by the New Testament.

Witchcraft and calling on familiar spirits - still forbidden in the Old Testament and New Testament.

Even after the death of Christ and the Gift of Salvation there were some spectacular punishments for misdeeds. Ananias and Saphfira come to mind.....
Why is it so difficult for you to realize spirits do want to contact their loved ones? I've tried to explain to you that most of these man-made rules about religion were put in place to manipulate and control the masses. Fear of the fire of hell is greater than having a million man army. Who cares about rules about pork and shellfish when people are starving to death because they don't have bread to eat? I'm not looking to argue with you about your interpretation of either Old or New Testaments. Unselfish people who have passed to the other side are no different from when they were in the flesh. They want to help their loved ones. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Last edited by Cityboy; 12-08-2016 at 05:37 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:50 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Oh I agree with you. Louis La'Amour often commented that it was always a mistake to judge an Indian by a settlers standards - because their values and traditions were different. I think that applies to a lot of other cultures as well.
You are the one doing the judging. When European Black Robes came to this country preaching from their Bibles, the natives told them "You talk about God, but we talk to Him." If the Indians didn't convert to Christianity, the Spanish hanged mothers from tree limbs in South American and then hung their babies from the dead mother's ankle. What Holy Book had that practice written in it? It was the European whites misinterpreting God from their Holy Books that were all fucked up in the head, not the Native-Americans. Indians were content with their way of life and culture. They didn't need to have their land stolen and be put in prison camps. You think that is what Jesus went around preaching? Trample your brother! Who gives a shit about eating pork when children are being slaughtered. Not even Jesus gives a shit about pork, dude.

Last edited by Cityboy; 12-08-2016 at 06:09 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:57 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Sure.

But Native Americans were just human beings living according their own beliefs and cultural norms. And I'm sure, like all human beings, they could be good and bad and everything in between, but according their standards, not ours.

The "Noble Savage" myth is a vestige of the colonialist mentality. It's simplistic and condescending, even if people like Cityboy want to believe it's something positive.

It reduces complex cultures and societies to a stereotype. Never a good idea.
You missed an important lesson, buddy. And you're dumb for ignoring it. All I can tell you.

Just to set the record straight. I'm no greedy mudder. A tipi in a Indian village, no complaints here. Had people like me arrived here, you'd be living in a country with a population of 95% Native Americans. I'm not a thief. And maybe you'd still be hunting buffalo too.

Last edited by Cityboy; 12-08-2016 at 06:14 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-08-2016, 06:13 PM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,395
Thanks: 292
Thanks 584
Default

So Atheists shouldn't reply here.

And Christians that think that the Bible, comprising both Old and New Testament is of God should not reply here

And if your dead relatives spirit seeks you out you get the spirit decoder ring out and decide its your Uncle Elmo and not a demon who resembles him and that's cool.

And because the Indians could talk to Spirits the dude in the black hoodie had nothing to offer but smallpox.

Since we've covered this, and my shortcomings in understanding the world of spirits according to City Boy I will just let you carry on with your topic.

Perhaps Myers and I can still offer some comic relief...
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-08-2016, 06:39 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Word Wizard
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 638
Thanks: 114
Thanks 137
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
You missed an important lesson, buddy. And you're dumb for ignoring it. All I can tell you.

Just to set the record straight. I'm no greedy mudder. A tipi in a Indian village, no complaints here. Had people like me arrived here, you'd be living in a country with a population of 95% Native Americans. I'm not a thief. And maybe you'd still be hunting buffalo too.
I was talking about pre-European North America, the era before the amazing time-traveling, egalitarian and compassionate Cityboy landed on North American shores and beautifully assimilated with his Native American brethren.

Unless, it's not true, and you're not really a time-traveler and you're just talking out your ass, imagining how you might have behaved in a situation, time and culture completely foreign to anyone in this day and age.

Well, which is it?

Oh, and can I begin to hope that you're capable if articulating just what lesson I missed? And before you start typing, take a deep breath and try to focus.

Last edited by Myers; 12-08-2016 at 10:39 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-08-2016, 06:46 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Online)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,904
Thanks: 256
Thanks 618
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
You missed an important lesson, buddy. And you're dumb for ignoring it. All I can tell you.

Just to set the record straight. I'm no greedy mudder. A tipi in a Indian village, no complaints here. Had people like me arrived here, you'd be living in a country with a population of 95% Native Americans. I'm not a thief. And maybe you'd still be hunting buffalo too.


I agree. He's dumb for missing such an obvious fact. What I wouldn't give to hunt the great buffalo again—lovely creatures. Oh, and live in a tepee and have dirt in my butt-crack, and poop outside, and wipe with my hands. Good times!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to brianpatrick For This Useful Post:
Myers (12-08-2016)
  #50  
Old 12-08-2016, 06:56 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Word Wizard
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 638
Thanks: 114
Thanks 137
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
I agree. He's dumb for missing such an obvious fact. What I wouldn't give to hunt the great buffalo again—lovely creatures. Oh, and live in a tepee and have dirt in my butt-crack, and poop outside, and wipe with my hands. Good times!
Uhg! Many moons since white man not speak with fork tongue.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 12-08-2016, 07:21 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default

//

Last edited by Cityboy; 12-09-2016 at 05:13 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12-09-2016, 05:11 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default

Returning to topic to finish thread with Abe Lincoln's flirtation with spirit world. You won't find this in history books, but his wife frequently held séances in the White House after the death of their son, and Abe may have even received advice about the war from the afterlife.

Lincoln & The Spiritualists

Although many Lincoln scholars say otherwise, it is more than possible that Abraham Lincoln didn’t just believe in the supernatural, but that he actually participated in it. Many have scoffed and said that Lincoln had no time for ghosts and spirits, but there are others who say that he actually attended séances that were held in the White House. Whether he accepted the movement or not, it is a fact that many Spiritualists were often guests there. Several of them were even said to have given him warnings about the dark shadows that hung over his life.

Of course, Lincoln himself was convinced that he was doomed and adopted a very fatalistic attitude during his presidency, especially after Willie’s death. His friends stated that Lincoln would often watch the door while he worked, as if expecting the boy to run through it and give his father a hug, as he often did in life. Lincoln also began to speak of how Willie’s spirit remained with him and how his presence was often felt in his home and office. Some mediums theorized that Lincoln’s obsession with the boy’s death may have caused Willie’s spirit to linger behind, refusing, for his father’s sake, to pass on to the other side.

Regardless of how he felt about Willie’s spirit, Lincoln publicly avoided connections to the Washington spiritualists, so much of what is written about his contact with them comes through accounts and diaries written by friends and acquaintances.
While Lincoln avoided the spiritualists in public, Mary embraced them openly. She had been quick to turn to contact with the other side for comfort after Willie’s death. Once he was gone, Mary never again entered the White House guest room where he died or the room in which the funeral viewing was held. Some historians claim that this was the beginning of Mary’s mental instability, but not because of the mediums, because of her fervent grief instead. The obsession over Spiritualism was just one of the symptoms, but none could ignore the fact that her headaches, mood swings and bursts of irrational temper were growing worse.
Mary began meeting with a number of different Spiritualists and invited many to the White House, as each claimed to be able to "lift the thin veil" and allow Mary to communicate with Willie. Mary’s closest spiritualist companion, and one of whom there is some record that Lincoln also met with, was Nettie Colburn Maynard. Many are familiar with a tale told about a séance held by Nettie Maynard in 1863 where a grand piano levitated. The medium was playing the instrument when it began to rise off the floor. Lincoln and Colonel Simon Kase were both present and it is said that both men climbed onto the piano, only to have it jump and shake so hard that they climbed down. It is recorded that Lincoln would later refer to the levitation as proof of an "invisible power."


Rumors spread that Lincoln had an interest in the spirit world. In England, a piece of sheet music was published which portrayed him holding a candle while violins and tambourines flew about his head. The piece of music was called The Dark Séance Polka and the caption below the illustration of the president read "Abraham Lincoln and the Spiritualists".

It was also rumored that Lincoln consulted with these mediums and clairvoyants to obtain information about future events in the war. He found that sometimes they gave him information about matters as mundane as Confederate troop movements -- information that sometimes matched his own precognitive visions.

Illustrations from a book in my collection called "Was Lincoln a Spiritualist?", which was written by medium Nettie Colburn Maynard
During a séance that was supposed to have been held at the home of a Mrs. Laurie in February 1863, a spirit come through Nettie Maynard who identified himself as Dr. Bamford. Lincoln was allegedly in attendance at this séance and listened as the spirit described the critical conditions of the Federal Army at the front lines. Lincoln replied that the spirit seemed to understand the situation and asked what he would do to remedy it. The spirit answered that he did -- but only if Lincoln had the courage to go through with it. Lincoln said that he did and asked for assistance.

The spirit told Lincoln that he should make an informal visit to the battle front, accompanied by Mrs. Lincoln, and that he should mingle with the men and hear their grievances and stories. This, said the spirit, would unite the men behind him. Lincoln followed his advice and managed to rally the troops behind the cause. By July of that year, the Union was dominating on both the western and eastern fronts with victories in Vicksburg and Gettysburg. The following of the spirit's advice was credited by many for beginning the turning point of the war.

The End. Draw your own conclusions.


Last edited by Cityboy; 12-09-2016 at 05:16 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12-09-2016, 10:26 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Word Wizard
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 638
Thanks: 114
Thanks 137
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
You missed an important lesson, buddy. And you're dumb for ignoring it. All I can tell you.

Just to set the record straight. I'm no greedy mudder. A tipi in a Indian village, no complaints here. Had people like me arrived here, you'd be living in a country with a population of 95% Native Americans. I'm not a thief. And maybe you'd still be hunting buffalo too.
Might I add -- the sense of peace and well-being afforded by your beliefs and communion with the spirit world really shines through in your posts.

It is truly inspiring.

Last edited by Myers; 12-09-2016 at 10:54 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12-09-2016, 03:35 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Online)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,904
Thanks: 256
Thanks 618
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Returning to topic to finish thread with Abe Lincoln's flirtation with spirit world. You won't find this in history books, but his wife frequently held séances in the White House after the death of their son, and Abe may have even received advice about the war from the afterlife.

Lincoln & The Spiritualists

Although many Lincoln scholars say otherwise, it is more than possible that Abraham Lincoln didn’t just believe in the supernatural, but that he actually participated in it. Many have scoffed and said that Lincoln had no time for ghosts and spirits, but there are others who say that he actually attended séances that were held in the White House. Whether he accepted the movement or not, it is a fact that many Spiritualists were often guests there. Several of them were even said to have given him warnings about the dark shadows that hung over his life.

Of course, Lincoln himself was convinced that he was doomed and adopted a very fatalistic attitude during his presidency, especially after Willie’s death. His friends stated that Lincoln would often watch the door while he worked, as if expecting the boy to run through it and give his father a hug, as he often did in life. Lincoln also began to speak of how Willie’s spirit remained with him and how his presence was often felt in his home and office. Some mediums theorized that Lincoln’s obsession with the boy’s death may have caused Willie’s spirit to linger behind, refusing, for his father’s sake, to pass on to the other side.

Regardless of how he felt about Willie’s spirit, Lincoln publicly avoided connections to the Washington spiritualists, so much of what is written about his contact with them comes through accounts and diaries written by friends and acquaintances.
While Lincoln avoided the spiritualists in public, Mary embraced them openly. She had been quick to turn to contact with the other side for comfort after Willie’s death. Once he was gone, Mary never again entered the White House guest room where he died or the room in which the funeral viewing was held. Some historians claim that this was the beginning of Mary’s mental instability, but not because of the mediums, because of her fervent grief instead. The obsession over Spiritualism was just one of the symptoms, but none could ignore the fact that her headaches, mood swings and bursts of irrational temper were growing worse.
Mary began meeting with a number of different Spiritualists and invited many to the White House, as each claimed to be able to "lift the thin veil" and allow Mary to communicate with Willie. Mary’s closest spiritualist companion, and one of whom there is some record that Lincoln also met with, was Nettie Colburn Maynard. Many are familiar with a tale told about a séance held by Nettie Maynard in 1863 where a grand piano levitated. The medium was playing the instrument when it began to rise off the floor. Lincoln and Colonel Simon Kase were both present and it is said that both men climbed onto the piano, only to have it jump and shake so hard that they climbed down. It is recorded that Lincoln would later refer to the levitation as proof of an "invisible power."


Rumors spread that Lincoln had an interest in the spirit world. In England, a piece of sheet music was published which portrayed him holding a candle while violins and tambourines flew about his head. The piece of music was called The Dark Séance Polka and the caption below the illustration of the president read "Abraham Lincoln and the Spiritualists".

It was also rumored that Lincoln consulted with these mediums and clairvoyants to obtain information about future events in the war. He found that sometimes they gave him information about matters as mundane as Confederate troop movements -- information that sometimes matched his own precognitive visions.

Illustrations from a book in my collection called "Was Lincoln a Spiritualist?", which was written by medium Nettie Colburn Maynard
During a séance that was supposed to have been held at the home of a Mrs. Laurie in February 1863, a spirit come through Nettie Maynard who identified himself as Dr. Bamford. Lincoln was allegedly in attendance at this séance and listened as the spirit described the critical conditions of the Federal Army at the front lines. Lincoln replied that the spirit seemed to understand the situation and asked what he would do to remedy it. The spirit answered that he did -- but only if Lincoln had the courage to go through with it. Lincoln said that he did and asked for assistance.

The spirit told Lincoln that he should make an informal visit to the battle front, accompanied by Mrs. Lincoln, and that he should mingle with the men and hear their grievances and stories. This, said the spirit, would unite the men behind him. Lincoln followed his advice and managed to rally the troops behind the cause. By July of that year, the Union was dominating on both the western and eastern fronts with victories in Vicksburg and Gettysburg. The following of the spirit's advice was credited by many for beginning the turning point of the war.

The End. Draw your own conclusions.



Did you listen to the Terence McKenna talks, dig his take on the whole thing?

Yeah, I know he advocates the taking of hallucinogenics, but he also stresses it's not always necessary.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 12-09-2016, 11:44 PM
salesdavew (Offline)
Let me introduce myself
New Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 9
Thanks: 1
Thanks 3
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
This is a dumb thing to say. Do you realize how many people were violently put to death believing Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I mean, you have free will and can say anything you want. However, judging by your photo, you are past your teenage years.

It's not a matter of being possessive about beliefs. What you said is plain stupid.


Nah, it ain't stupid......but believing that "Christianity", which is all I can and will speak on, has caused more harm than good IS indeed stupid, exceedingly so. When looked at honestly and rationally, Christ was only interested in love, PERIOD. Yes, there has been great harm done by those who turned those lessons of love into something ugly.......Man, just look at what many, Millions, have done, continue to do, to Islam. But, as far as Christianity goes, the lives saved, the wars won, dictators and despots stopped, and the good done......far far far outweighs the bad. Don't be "stupid".
By the way, I have no real horse in the race as I am not a Christian.
God Bless.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 12-12-2016, 10:21 AM
eripiomundus (Offline)
Noteworthy
Official Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 291
Thanks: 8
Thanks 74
Default

Originally Posted by bluewpc View Post
@myers I don't know if that's a good idea to preface the video. On the one hand you don't want to contaminate it with your own view point, you could argue you could avoid that by simply being as objective as possible and theres that. On the other hand for me its important to restrict information from people. There are many people simply incapable of handling information and you don't want to give them ideas.

But lets defer to you. Here's my cents. This endless debate on whether or not there are gods or the supernatural or an afterlife is utterly irrelevant. The true question is whether or not there is meaning. Because gods can exist without meaning and meaning can exist without gods. The two have been erroneously conflated.

So the video, while not espousing this view, does provide an avenue by which to come to this realization as the ideas it puts forward are a secular lens through which to approach religion and the texts which found them.
[Haven't watched the video - low on data - but I will at some stage in the future]

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that there is no universal meaning, and there cannot be any.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 12-12-2016, 10:33 AM
eripiomundus (Offline)
Noteworthy
Official Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 291
Thanks: 8
Thanks 74
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
All atheists, please don't take this post personal. I'm not trying to rub any of you the wrong way or "convert" anybody since most of you are fully baked by now. I know this forum has believers as well as non-believers, and this post is aimed toward believers. But, just as well, I'm not even trying to inject my beliefs into what other believers may believe.

There are legitimate psychics and mediums who are capable of seeing or hearing spirits. Developing psychic abilities through concentration or meditation is a known fact in the metaphysical circle. However, there are those who through family blood have been born psychics or mediums. Whatever the case, either through development or by birth, many of these people have the ability to communicate with "the other side."

For most of us though, our communication with our deceased loved ones come through our dreams, which are much more than mere dreams. Neither time nor space can diminish human love. And just because our loved ones depart from us doesn't mean that they ever forget us (just as we the living never forget them).

Without our having psychic abilities, the easiest way a departed loved one reaches us is through our dreams. When we sleep, we remove the barrier of our conscious mind and thus spring open the doorway of our subconscious to allow our loved ones easy access to us.

Pay attention to your dreams, especially when you dream of deceased loved ones. There is always a reason they are visiting you. They just might be dropping in to wish you a happy birthday or a happy holiday. But do take these "visitations" seriously because they are a lot more than mere dreams.

If anyone has a loved one whom they would like to hear from, here is a simple method which is almost certain to bring a loved one into your dream. Before going to bed at night, stare for ten- to fifteen-minutes at a photograph of the loved one you intend to see. Afterwards, say a prayer and invite the person into your dream.

Remember, there isn't any barrier that prevents love from reaching us or from reaching our deceased loved ones--not time, not space, not transition.
I think you're reading too much into what dreams are. I'll try to be brief:

The unconscious mind records shifting experiences seamlessly. As such, the unconscious is a continuum. Part of what the unconscious records is conscious thought. At the end of the night the unconscious records your last conscious thought before unconsciousness. But the unconscious cannot be so easily "switched off" as the consciousness can, because it is a continuous system.

The last conscious thought that the unconscious records is associated in the unconscious with not merely the bread-crumb trail of conscious thought that led to it, but also other data recorded concomitantly and other historically associated information. The unconscious wanders throughout these according to associative salience.

If you've been thinking about departed loved ones, seen pictures of them that day (or recently), or whatever, you might dream of them. Dreams are the product of an uninterrupted system taking time to "switch off".

Aside: since the unconscious records everything in a contunual stream, it "knows" cause and effect. This is part of the oft-cited phenomena whereby people solve problems in their sleep by asking the question just before sleep comes on.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 12-12-2016, 10:43 AM
eripiomundus (Offline)
Noteworthy
Official Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 291
Thanks: 8
Thanks 74
Default

As for "visitations in your sleep". Anyone here, besides me, ever had the experience of sleep paralysis?
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 12-12-2016, 12:42 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default

Originally Posted by eripiomundus View Post
As for "visitations in your sleep". Anyone here, besides me, ever had the experience of sleep paralysis?

Have you ever experienced any OBEs, erip?

It is a good analysis (above), but you're being much too logical for the supernatural. In other words, the left side of your brain is working too hard to make all the pieces fit according to your own beliefs. But, I don't want to get involve with beliefs here (since I have my own too) and we all get a bit testy trying to defend what we believe. Most of what I've written about is based upon actual experiences. The dream part is based upon beliefs. Have you ever had precognitive dreams? They reveal to you in your sleeping state the exact scene of what will occur in the waking state. These types of dreams have little to do with what is stored in your subconscious mind and are rather a glimpse into the future. Dream analysis and interpretation is far too vast to discuss in a thread as this one. It would take volumes to explain about the types of dreams and whether or not the dream images are coming from your own mind or coming from an outside source.

Last edited by Cityboy; 12-12-2016 at 12:52 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 12-12-2016, 01:20 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,279
Thanks: 19
Thanks 126
Default

Many people (non-believers and believers alike) brush off the supernatural as purely fantasy. Because, and rightfully so, a person doesn't connect with "the other side," he or she is skeptical about its existence. To be truthful regarding this matter, the vast majority of skeptics however haven't spent much time delving into the occult to discover for themselves. They rely upon advice from others. But, I'll tell you this: black magic and witchcraft are alive and well in the United States of America, especially in small sleepy towns. Teenagers have been meddling with and summoning up dark forces forever now. It's not fantasy; it's out there. And if you do a bit of homework, you'll discover how real all this stuff is. If you choose to stay put and rely upon the advice of others, well, that's your business. And, you're the boss.

Last edited by Cityboy; 12-12-2016 at 01:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

  WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Dream In Search Of Wings JoshuaCan Poetry 11 09-25-2014 11:52 PM
Walt Disney: Sculpting the American Dream _zeb_ Non-Fiction 3 10-03-2012 07:19 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:42 PM.

vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.