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Old 03-08-2015, 03:51 PM
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Default The Math


Just to glimpse over the shoulder, I had to do the math. It's no biggie though. This report isn't going to help anyone improve his or her writing (which is the big deal), but it might shed some light onto the number of responders to threads over the past year.

Each dated period consists of 30 threads along with the total number of replies to those threads and the average number of replies for the 30 threads. If anyone is interested in the numbers, they are here. Otherwise, have a nice day.

Thirty Threads

02/20/15 to 03/08/15... 280 replies (9.3 avg. reply)

12/10/14 to 12/22/14... 190 replies (6.3 avg.)

09/30/14 to 10/14/14... 141 replies (4.7 avg.)

08/03/14 to 08/18/14... 233 replies (7.7 avg.)

06/11/14 to 06/21/14... 124 replies (4.1 avg.)

05/06/14 to 05/12/14... 112 replies (3.7 avg.)

03/23/14 to 04/04/14 ... 133 replies (4.4 avg.)

01/18/14 to 02/11/14 ... 126 replies (4.2 avg.)

The most replies to threads occurred during the past two weeks. One could determine from these numbers that the replies to threads have actually increased lately. So, at least, that could be accurately determined.

Quality is another story. As far as I'm concerned y'all have brains. So someone else culd d the quality study.


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Old 03-09-2015, 05:23 AM
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Try getting out more.
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Old 03-09-2015, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
Try getting out more.
The thread was done from a park picnic table, where I sat with one eye on a little league game and the other on the figures. Why are you becoming a thorn? I don't care what comes from your head; why should you care what comes from mine? Go away please. . . where you belong. The intention here is to show statistics not engage professional arguers.

To be honest about the numbers, three of the most recent threads have more than 100 replies combined...this indicates a lot of chit chat taking place and not critiques.

I believe "quality" critiquing must begin at home with the writer himself/herself. Self revisions are the best critiques. Eliminate the clutter within each sentence, and the piece will be worthy to place before most readers.

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Old 03-09-2015, 09:09 AM
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You've hit on an interesting point, Shelly. There's such diverse experience levels flowing through the halls though.

I still remember my early days here, being a fledgling forum poster and writer. Look back at my posts and threads, it's all there. And for sure, I've still got plenty to learn.

Maybe I was just lucky to have had certain members want to mentor me, or maybe they saw potential in my writing and wanted to see it blossom.

I learned a little trick shortly after joining WB to help me improve a piece somewhat before posting it. And this may never help anyone besides me, but I thought I'd share it. I'd print my piece and retype it on the thread. I've caught many a mistake and/or bolstered description/dialogue doing this method. Knowing it was going in front of my peers, who honestly want to see me improve, sharpened my pencil for me.
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Old 03-09-2015, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bagit View Post
You've hit on an interesting point, Shelly. There's such diverse experience levels flowing through the halls though.

I still remember my early days here, being a fledgling forum poster and writer. Look back at my posts and threads, it's all there. And for sure, I've still got plenty to learn.

Maybe I was just lucky to have had certain members want to mentor me, or maybe they saw potential in my writing and wanted to see it blossom.

I learned a little trick shortly after joining WB to help me improve a piece somewhat before posting it. And this may never help anyone besides me, but I thought I'd share it. I'd print my piece and retype it on the thread. I've caught many a mistake and/or bolstered description/dialogue doing this method. Knowing it was going in front of my peers, who honestly want to see me improve, sharpened my pencil for me.
Fledgling...impossible. Weren't you the one born with a pencil in one hand and a pad in the other?
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:20 PM
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Ha!

Yes, of course! I can't slide nothing past you. I was strictly spoon-fed softened literature cookies and alphabet soup as a kid too.
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:20 PM
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You are as tenacious as they come Shelly- I love it! If there's ever a brawl I want you on my side; I'm pretty sure that even if they knocked you out you would still be swinging in your sleep.

It may be a bad analogy in you mind, but it's a compliment!
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:29 PM
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My personal experience has been that the number of replies to stories I posted has been on the decrease since 2010.
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:40 PM
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Non- if I felt capable enough to critique your work I would...
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Old 03-09-2015, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bagit View Post
Ha!

Yes, of course! I can't slide nothing past you. I was strictly spoon-fed softened literature cookies and alphabet soup as a kid too.
Nice comeback. If writing doesn't work, you definitely have a shot as a stand up comedian. (just kidding...ur too smart for that stuff )


I miss the alphabet cereal...blast from the past. I think that's how I learned to spell.

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Old 03-09-2015, 03:38 PM
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I think the statistics are important. I would be curious to see if you took the responses and listed all the people who responded or posted, however you look at it, and see how many people respond multiple times. I read a lot of posts but rarely respond only because I feel like a little kid in an adult world and really don't have anything important to say except where's the ice cream.

There are some great people here and I see the same people talking and discussing and yes sometimes arguing. I guess it would be interesting to see the correlation between posts and people and whether they are new people or seasoned veterans and how many times they post and re-post in a thread. I think that would give you more detail into if the threads are really growing or not.

Just a thought from an analyst by trade and a not very good one at that, hence why I am unemployed.
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Old 03-09-2015, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bagit View Post
Ha!

Yes, of course! I can't slide nothing past you. I was strictly spoon-fed softened literature cookies and alphabet soup as a kid too.

Bagit, just having fun here. No intentions of being an irritant ... so....


Can't slide ANYthing ... the Duble negative rule.
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Old 03-09-2015, 04:23 PM
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That's the thing that's so great about this place, Schmoo. Writing is all about reasoning out what you want to say. Anytime you use this skill it is practice.

Digesting someone's writing and formulating a reply is great practice.
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Old 03-09-2015, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
Bagit, just having fun here. No intentions of being an irritant ... so....


Can't slide ANYthing ... the Duble negative rule.
Yes, the dreaded double negative. Constantly creeping up on me, destroying me.

Anywho...You can toss those rules in the fire . . .(ahem) . . . bend those rules slightly sometimes during dialogue.
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Old 03-09-2015, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
My personal experience has been that the number of replies to stories I posted has been on the decrease since 2010.
Well, don't give up. Keep posting. Maybe by 2035 all the geniuses who left will have returned to critique your work again.

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Old 03-09-2015, 07:52 PM
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This looks like something I would do. If not outside, at least near an open window. I like numbers, especially statistics. So, I can definitely appreciate what you did here.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:30 AM
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Interesting. I noticed that in 2012 I received 186 replies to posts I made but in 2013 that suddenly catapulted to 345, whereas this year I've received a paltry 47. However, as we're still only in march those figures could yet increase as the year advances.
I've also noticed a 47% drop in critiques when the shops are open, and a huge 94% decrease around the holiday seasons. I'm not sure what any of this means yet as I'm still waiting for my team of analysts to full examine the date, but once the results are in I'll be sure to share them here.
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Old 03-10-2015, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
My personal experience has been that the number of replies to stories I posted has been on the decrease since 2010.
Sure. People who were around 2, 3 years ago, or more can see the difference. Especially if you posted in "Members Only."

It doesn't take any "math" to see that it's about dead in water these days. The same few stories have been hovering at the top of the page for weeks. If you are a writer who might want to submit stories for publication at some point -- this is probably not the place to be.

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Old 03-10-2015, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeMatt View Post
Sure. People who were around 2, 3 years ago, or more can see the difference. Especially if you posted in "Members Only."

It doesn't take any "math" to see that it's about dead in water these days. The same few stories have been hovering at the top of the page for weeks. If you are a writer who might want to submit stories for publication at some point -- this is probably not the place to be.
Respectfully I have to disagree. All this talk of past prowess translates as potential-- God I hate that word-- for the rest of us.

That aside- it doesn't matter if there is one critique or a thousand; all it takes is that one good critique. Every time I see one of you who give outstanding critiques I study them. I try to see if I can learn a better mode of critique, but also, how I can apply it to my own writing. In my mind- if you critique one story you critique all of them. All it takes is a little studying.
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Old 03-10-2015, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by daes13 View Post
Respectfully I have to disagree. All this talk of past prowess translates as potential-- God I hate that word-- for the rest of us.
What does saying that it's slow in the Members Only section have to do with "prowess" or anyone's potential or lack thereof?

At one point we had more members who were posting there -- presumably because they had stories that they might want submit for publication. That's what Members Only is for.

How exactly are we disagreeing?

Originally Posted by daes13 View Post
That aside- it doesn't matter if there is one critique or a thousand; all it takes is that one good critique.
Not really. That's an oversimplification. It helps to have varied opinions.

Originally Posted by daes13 View Post
Every time I see one of you who give outstanding critiques I study them. I try to see if I can learn a better mode of critique, but also, how I can apply it to my own writing. In my mind- if you critique one story you critique all of them. All it takes is a little studying.
O.K.

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Old 03-10-2015, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by daes13 View Post
Respectfully I have to disagree. All this talk of past prowess translates as potential-- God I hate that word-- for the rest of us.

That aside- it doesn't matter if there is one critique or a thousand; all it takes is that one good critique. Every time I see one of you who give outstanding critiques I study them. I try to see if I can learn a better mode of critique, but also, how I can apply it to my own writing. In my mind- if you critique one story you critique all of them. All it takes is a little studying.
daes13, since your arrival, you have been nothing but an asset to this site. In language I'm familiar with, I'll say you are the equivalent of a baseball team acquiring a .340 hitter who hits 40 homers and drives in 130 RBIs; and your spunk on the field makes you a team leader. Now, with that out of the way (and you truly deserve the compliment), I will say writing is definitely hard work. It is one of the hardest occupations out there. And in the trade of writing I have noticed that the butt is just as vital as the head. For if anyone does not have the patience to sit in a chair to study, to learn, and to write...then he/she ought to use his/her head to start searching elsewhere for a job (or a hobby).

Paperback writer, paperback writer, pa...per..back...wri...ter.


What has really declined in the past year is "rowdy behavior" and "filth from the mouth." (But, that's another story )

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Old 03-10-2015, 05:48 AM
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Shelly- I don't follow baseball but i get the compliment thank you.

JoeMatt- the members only thing- I think misunderstood what you said. Actually it would be definitely then not "think"- anyway I apologize.

Yes the members only section I avoid because it is slow- I agree with you there. I typically don't post there because-- someone previously stated fiction is for beginners and members only for higher level, can't remember who-- and I believe that as well.

And yes when you do your thorough critique people read it and, hopefully, think about their own critiques and stories.

Give it time and we-- sorry to anyone who feels I am lumping (funny word!) them into this category-- will work out way up to that point.

Oh yeah- just disagreeing with your last statement of this not being the place to be. Maybe I misread the context though. I don't know.
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:06 AM
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Not being the place to be...well, everyone knows where the door is.


The site is a wonderful instrument for learning.


Common sense: we all cannot be an "Einstein." It is a lofty position reserved for the sacred few. But, everyone can learn to write well ... with a little help from our friends.

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Old 03-10-2015, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Schmoo View Post
I think the statistics are important.
I think not. I'm not sure what Shelley is trying to demonstrate.

Originally Posted by Schmoo View Post
I guess it would be interesting to see the correlation between posts and people and whether they are new people or seasoned veterans and how many times they post and re-post in a thread.
interesting, but subjective and unquantifiable. I guess I would count as a 'seasoned veteran' but is a crit from me any more valid, or valuable, than a crit from someone who's been here a week but is keen to impress? Is one from NS worth two from Joe?

Come to that, are 50 crits better than 5? In all cases, I suspect not. Especially if half the comments are just platitudes (though it's always nice to hear nice things).

A large percentage of people don't know how to give a critique (and I'm not sure I do, to be honest). Some will painstakingly line-edit and show all the spag in red. Lovely, but largely pointless. Many will be too afraid of causing offence to be honest. Many only read inside their chosen genre and therefore will love the familiar, even if it is all tired cliché.

Some writers do themselves no favours either. How many times do we see a story preceded by something like "I wrote this at 3am and haven't read it just posted it hope u like it"?

If you don't have the manners and pride in your work to make it the best it can be before you post it, you really don't deserve any feedback.

I crit very rarely. Life's too short. Usually it's only by accident, if a title grabs my attention. Sometimes it's because I recognise a name (Shelley may be a bit anal, and dreadfully annoying, but kicks ass as a writer).

More often than not I'll intend to crit, read the first couple of sentences and think "What's the point?"
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by daes13 View Post
Oh yeah- just disagreeing with your last statement of this not being the place to be. Maybe I misread the context though. I don't know.
When I said it's not the place to be -- I mean currently -- if you are already at the point where you might want to submit your stories for publication.

As for the idea that people move from "Fiction" to "Members Only" at some point -- you would think it works that way -- but from my experience here and other sites with a similar set up, it doesn't happen very often. I don't know why, but people usually post in once place or the other and they stay there -- and then eventually they drift off for one reason or another.

And I don't think it has anything to do with more experienced writers thinking they're too good to critique in "Fiction" -- as some have implied. I know that's not the case with me. It's simply because this critique thing is mostly based on reciprocation -- so people tend to post their work and critique in the same area of the forum.

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Old 03-10-2015, 06:42 AM
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Hi Shelly do not mean to be a bore or interrupt but is it not
Math with an S?
or is that the American spelling?
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:50 AM
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I have noticed that people tend to stay in the same area. If I ever decide to try to publish a story I will definitely use members only, but right now I really want to thoroughly finish a novel. Then again, if I ever do feel competent enough to post in the members only section I will come with bells and lights and zebras!
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:30 AM
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Personal experience tells me that I get less feedback in members only than in fiction, so if I post anything in future it won't be members only. I'm not even sure why there is any distinction between the two.
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:52 AM
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I don't either. If you want to publish something you have posted in Fiction, all you have to do is delete it.
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Old 03-10-2015, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
Hi Shelly do not mean to be a bore or interrupt but is it not
Math with an S?
or is that the American spelling?
I'm not sure myself. But certainly you aren't a bore.
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