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  #1  
Old 01-02-2018, 02:38 PM
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I have tried Christianity at different times. It always causes psychological problems! It goes without saying that we should treat each other with respect. The problems I have are with supernatural things like the virgin birth, miracles of Jesus, and Jesus coming back from the dead and walking around 40 days before ascending into heaven. It sounds ridiculous, a combination of mythology, superstition and lies, not something we might regard as fact. I tried the Bible and church again when my mother died. I basically laid in bed and drank for a year. I prayed her soul went to heaven. At the same time, I could not say there is any kind of afterlife or such a thing as a soul. When I pray, I feel schizophrenic, like I am talking to myself. It seems that when we are dead, we are dead. Yet, there is something in humans that yearns for immortality. Why? Perhaps it is an indication that there really is a "God" and some kind of eternal existence. Apparently, animals do not have religion or any longing for immortality. People say that humans are animals. I recoil from that idea. We differ from animals, yet this is still not proof of any kind of Creator. It seems that all religions are wrong! Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam all reflect medieval thinking. I cannot say I am an atheist because I am not. Nor can I say I am a believer or an agnostic. None of these categories apply.

Creationists offer no proof. The Bible is mythology, stories made up by men. Ancient Jews had their mythology as did the ancient Greeks and Romans. Science is objective! It deals with nature and physical reality. The flood story of Genesis is fantasy. The idea that Noah built a boat and put all the animals in the world in it is absurd. Science sets the date of the earth at 4.6 billion years. All the continents have been under water at different times. Fossils of marine animals can be found in the highest mountains. But there was no "Biblical flood" as such that killed all the people except Noah and his family. Charles Darwin started out as a "believer." His faith had to be shaken by his voyage and his findings in the Galapagos Islands. But in the 1830s and in the company he kept, it was dangerous to contest scripture.

After my mother died, I went to Belmont Church on Music Row a couple of times. I did not fit. I asked the preacher how he knew Jesus rose from the grave. He said because of the "empty tomb." I was not convinced. There was no empty tomb. The preacher was confusing a ghost story with reality. Printed words on a page do not make an empty tomb. On the bottom line, the gospels are mythology, although they are not taught that way by the Church. They are taught as fact. But the idea that a man came back to life, ascended into the atmosphere, and will one day return in clouds to catch believers up in some kind of rapture is strange.

Jesus is a mythological character. So, any number of stories can and have been invented about him just as the ancient Greeks had varied and contradictory stories about their gods and goddesses.

I do not want to be called an "atheist!" It is a derogatory word people who believe in mythology call people who know the difference between what is real and what is not real.

Life is a result of bio-chemical processes. When those bio-chemical processes cease, life ends. "We are chemistry," as Seth Shostak writes.

We are chemistry and biology! We are thinking beings with language. We created religions, gods and goddesses and the monotheistic concept of one God. We wrote the Bible and ascribed its authorship to an imaginary deity.

Still, it nags at me.

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  #2  
Old 01-03-2018, 02:10 PM
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Wow Jim, you are a tough one. But I'll try an answer. Have you studied the biological sciences in any detail? If you do/ or did, how can you not appreciate the perfect dovetailed relationship that every living thing has with every other living thing? The parasite that is perfectly adapted to his host- abiding but without killing. Or the bee with special adaptations to carry pollen from just one type of flower. Consider our own microbiota inhabiting our gut- each type specifically equipped to break down one type of nutrient, and now we are told they form our first line of immune defense. Again, abiding and insuring our good health. To me this is the best evidence of a creator. This cannot be the random working of creatures. As for evidence of Jesus and his story, I agree this does require some faith. But in view of the fact that there is great evil in the world would you not expect there also to be great good? And Jesus and his love for mankind is the greatest good imaginable. I know you to be, from your writings, a highly intelligent man. Therefore I urge you to pursue this subject diligently and read what scholars have written. Don't just take the offhanded opinion of some preacher. And try several faiths. You may well find one where you do fit in.

I hope I have not offended- you did invite a dialogue.
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:47 PM
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Hmm... I would say evolutionary biology answers those questions very succinctly, and accounts for all of the perfection. Like, all of it.

There are, however, good cultural and social reasons for churches. I donít think anybody can deny that. In a way, I think we have pushed tech and science so fast that evolution canít keep up. I donít know whatís going to happen with that. It could go either way. Anyway, I donít think we have a choice at this point. We canít put the genie back in the bottle, and some of the ways we are developing run counter to what we still ďneedĒ as basically tribal animals.

I see what Jim is saying, and I donít think he is really struggling with it. Maybe he should find a church that fits with him. Who knows, he might meet a nice girl who will adopt him into her tribe.


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Old 01-03-2018, 04:37 PM
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[QUOTE=Jim Colyer

Life is a result of bio-chemical processes. When those bio-chemical processes cease, life ends.

[/QUOTE]


Perhaps you are deciding that life is limited to the consciousness processes
that you are currently enjoying.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwY8BO29zjk

Jump to 26:00 or so to begin seeing what I am presenting for your consideration.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:46 PM
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Poor Jim.

He won't be feeling so smug when he's burning in the fires of eternal damnation.
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Poor Jim.

He won't be feeling so smug when he's burning in the fires of eternal damnation.


Iím hoping Bon Scott and James Joyce will be there by the time I get there.


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Old 01-04-2018, 05:46 PM
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Oh yeah. They'll be there.

I probably will be too.

But I don't know that conditions will allow us to enjoy each other's company.

Along those lines -- people talk about "rock and roll heaven."

But I'm pretty sure rock and roll hell would be more my cup of tea.

Last edited by Myers; 01-04-2018 at 06:04 PM..
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:09 PM
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Iíll meet you at the molten fountain of fudge. Yeah, itíll suck, but... fudge.


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Old 01-04-2018, 07:24 PM
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You think you'll make it to that level?

Cuz with my luck, I'm thinking more like a molten fountain of green bean casserole.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
You think you'll make it to that level?

Cuz with my luck, I'm thinking more like a molten fountain of green bean casserole.


Iíll try and shit you some fudge... youíre younger than me, so Iíll have a decade to practice.


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  #11  
Old 01-04-2018, 07:40 PM
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Thanks man.

But seriously, I like Jim's approach.

It's like, well, the shit's hittin' the fan, so I think I'll "try" Jesus...
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