WritersBeat.com
 

Go Back   WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table

The Intellectual Table Discussions on political topics, social issues, current affairs, etc.


Basic Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 04-13-2016, 10:07 PM
wyf's Avatar
wyf (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK, bottom half
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 135
Thanks 125
Default


It has ben proven that fluoride is beneficial, not harmful, yet there is still bizarre misinformation about this. Why?

__________________
How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. ~ Anais Nin
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-13-2016, 10:25 PM
Prodigalson's Avatar
Prodigalson (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Humboldt Co., CA
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 205
Thanks 357
Default Rights

Again, a confusion as to what is a 'right' and what is not.

You have the right to go out and investigate as many sources of water as you can, then choose the one which most closely fits your requirements.

No one has an obligation to deliver to you anything (which would be a prerequisite of you 'receiving' it), unless you have contracted with them to do so.

When you contract with your water department to buy water from them, it is understood that it is the same water they provide all of their customers.

If that water has fluoride in it, that is what they're obligated to deliver to you.

If you don't want fluoride in your water, you have the right to buy your water elsewhere, but since most municipal water suppliers are monopolies, you have the right to try to convince your neighbors that fluoride is bad for you and get them to help you convince the water board to stop adding it to the water they sell.

If you fail, you have the right to buy bottled water at the market, thus joining the millions who, even though they don't know about or don't mind fluoride, have convinced themselves that there is some advantage to buying bottled water.

So, you have the options of being seen as crazy by those who don't mind fluoride, or being seen as crazy by those of us who think buying bottled water brands you a fool.

Or maybe they're the same people. Either way, someone's going to think you're crazy, and you have to let them, because they have that right.

Originally Posted by wyf View Post
In the guns and gods thread Mohican said that gun ownership was a right bestowed on him by god.

What rights do we think, regardless of who (or what) gives them, are inalienable (apart from guns!!)?
We have the rights to our thoughts.

In some locales and times, we may not have the ability to express them, but we have the right to think them.
__________________
Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Prodigalson; 04-13-2016 at 10:27 PM.. Reason: Used two posts when I could have used one.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-14-2016, 05:36 AM
Bagit's Avatar
Bagit (Offline)
Dungeon Keeper
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Atlantis; near the west shores of Zingara
Posts: 5,428
Thanks: 878
Thanks 490
Default

Originally Posted by wyf View Post
It has ben proven that fluoride is beneficial, not harmful, yet there is still bizarre misinformation about this. Why?
Topically scrubbed then rinsed off, yes.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...ium%20fluoride

I'd prefer to not be poisoned when gulping down a glass of tap-water.
__________________
Battle is tricky. Sometimes one can only hope that luck strikes favorably. But without effort, luck is sacrificed.
We The People!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-14-2016, 09:43 AM
Binx B
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The key word is trace. Pretty sure there are trace amounts of all kinds of poisonous stuff like cadmium, lead, mercury, thallium etc. that naturally occur in water. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up swallowing more fluoride brushing your teeth with a fluoride toothpaste then you do from drinking water.

As to whether or not it's really bad for you, or if it does any good—it depends on who you you ask. We have a whole-house water filter, and I went ahead got one that filters out fluoride, or at least it's supposed to. Seeing as how we brush our teeth regularly, I don't think it's going to be an issue.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-14-2016, 09:52 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Originally Posted by wyf View Post
But you still avoided answering the question.
this question?
wyf asked If the founding fathers had a crystal ball and could look at America today, do you think they might have written the constitution in a different way?
Hmm.

Jimmy Madison wrote the Constitution For These United States, and Little Jimmy was a bit of a flip flopper.

So a few questions needs to be asked and answered before I answer this (again)

1. Would Jimmy Madison realize that many of the "interpretations" and "deviations" from The Constitution For These United States stem from his tendency towards lack of specificity?

Probably Not.

2. Would today's state of affairs have concerned Jimmy Madison?

Maybe

Would he (Jimmy Madison) have written a different Constituion if he saw the chaos descended.

I'm 50-50 on that.

Would the people of the 11 states that originally ratifed the Constitution for These United States follow that same course if they had a crystal ball?

No. About 1860 or so a few of the states, unsuccessfully decided it was time to pursue a new republic......
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-14-2016, 12:37 PM
Prodigalson's Avatar
Prodigalson (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Humboldt Co., CA
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 205
Thanks 357
Default

Originally Posted by Binx B View Post
The key word is trace...
Yes, there are trace amounts of many things which are poisonous in much of what we consume. Enough of them occur naturally to raise the question: Is it wise to add another element to the mix which is otherwise known only as a toxic industrial solvent?

Originally Posted by Binx B View Post
Seeing as how we brush our teeth regularly, I don't think it's going to be an issue.
Which I think is the point of the anti-fluoridation side: since most everyone brushes their teeth regularly, what is the point of adding poison to the drinking water? Without fluoridated drinking water, children who need fluoride can get all they need by brushing their teeth with fluoridated toothpaste, while parents who believe fluoride is bad for you can buy fluoride-free toothpaste or have their children brush their teeth with baking soda and hydrogen peroxide, like they did before someone figured out people were willing to pay good money for some flavored chalk in a tube.
__________________
Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-14-2016, 12:55 PM
Binx B
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No, I agree with a lot of that. I think the argument is that there are poor kids who don't brush regularly who are supposed to benefit, and lot of doctors and dentists think they do.

Personally, I don't know for sure whether or not it really helps and it's hard to get a straight answer. So if there was a referendum in my city to stop using it, like there was in Portland, I don't know how I'd vote. Otherwise, I haven't seen any real evidence that there is cause for alarm and it might be a good thing for some people who need it.

So yeah, I don't really know. Are you allowed to say that on these kinds of forums?

Last edited by Binx B; 04-14-2016 at 12:57 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-14-2016, 01:15 PM
Prodigalson's Avatar
Prodigalson (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Humboldt Co., CA
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 205
Thanks 357
Default

I believe, when it comes right down to it, very little of what we think we know is other than the best we can do with the information at hand.

Knowledge is based on information, and information keeps changing. What if we discovered that there is no gravity? That, rather than mass being pulled towards the center of massive objects, those massive objects were really expanding at such a rate as to want to rush past us, giving the illusion of falling?

We'd feel like idiots, but our daily life wouldn't change, would it?

I don't know, but I've got the right to think it (added to stay on topic).
__________________
Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Prodigalson; 04-14-2016 at 01:17 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-14-2016, 10:21 PM
wyf's Avatar
wyf (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK, bottom half
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 135
Thanks 125
Default

Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
Knowledge is based on information,
That is the internet default.

Knowledge is based on fact.

Dumb knowledge is based on information. The internet is full of information.

Remember when most of the world believed in global warming but a lot of americans didn't? Remember all the information available on the net that was cited as being proof that global warming wasn't happening?

information is not fact. It's like Mohican's evasiveness and smoke and mirrors, it presents itself as reasonable so people don't question it because it suits their argument.
__________________
How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. ~ Anais Nin
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-15-2016, 04:48 AM
Binx B
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The hard part is discerning what's fact and what isn't and you usually have to sift through a lot of information to even begin to try to make the distinction.

The real problem is confirmation bias—people seeking out and taking in only the information that supports what they already believe. Throw religion into the mix, and there's very little chance that you're going to change anyone's mind or get them to even consider a different point of view.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:04 AM
Prodigalson's Avatar
Prodigalson (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Humboldt Co., CA
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 205
Thanks 357
Default

But facts are fluid, wyf. We used to believe the speed of light was unsurpassable. Now we are finding out, that may not be the case.

For years , we knew for a fact how many planets orbited the sun. Now that's up for debate.

When I was a kid, a well-trusted company, Dow Chemical, along with our government, came up with a couple of 'facts': exposure to creosote is bad for you. And our friends at Dow Chemical have a solution, in an oderless, colorless, non-toxic, environmentally friendly alternative, called 'Pentaseal'.

My dad bought the stuff in five-gallon buckets and we used it everywhere we had previously used creosote. My brother and I were soaked in the stuff every day during the course of my thirteenth summer, as we were treating the timbers for a new bridge we were building.

Exactly thirty years later I was diagnosed with cancer, and it turned out that pentachlorophenol and its contaminants are loaded with dioxins (think Agent Orange).

There are all kinds of 'facts' in that story, but which ones are pertinent? This was long before the internet, and my dad was no fool (he was the County Administrator of Hospitals at the time). He based his decision on what he considered to be the facts at hand, and they turned out to be lies.
__________________
Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Prodigalson; 04-17-2016 at 09:08 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-15-2016, 04:56 PM
Bagit's Avatar
Bagit (Offline)
Dungeon Keeper
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Atlantis; near the west shores of Zingara
Posts: 5,428
Thanks: 878
Thanks 490
Default

This is why I don't trust the CDC, or any other "government organization supposedly protecting by "safety" or "prevention".

Take Monsanto for instance. A pesticide/crop-seed producer . . . mix the two and you've got a weed resistant, poisonous corn cob. A succulent morsel ready to be ingested.
__________________
Battle is tricky. Sometimes one can only hope that luck strikes favorably. But without effort, luck is sacrificed.
We The People!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-15-2016, 06:55 PM
Prodigalson's Avatar
Prodigalson (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Humboldt Co., CA
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 205
Thanks 357
Default

Technically, it's an herbicide resistant corn cob. It has no resistance of it's own to the weeds; it will just survive heavy applications of the poisons.

There are GMO plants that resist bugs by producing the poisons within themselves, which gives you a visually pleasing, poisonous product.

Yum.

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
If you believe in a God, or the Christian God/Trinity as I do, then there are natural rights. And more natural duties than rights.

If you don't believe in God or any god or gods then you probably have to take the view that rights are granted from whatever hierarchy you live under. To some extent.
But even God-given, or natural rights have to be defended by men, and if we can't defend them, we lose them.
__________________
Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Prodigalson For This Useful Post:
Bagit (04-16-2016)
  #44  
Old 04-16-2016, 04:23 PM
Bagit's Avatar
Bagit (Offline)
Dungeon Keeper
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Atlantis; near the west shores of Zingara
Posts: 5,428
Thanks: 878
Thanks 490
Default

I believe, when it comes right down to it, very little of what we think we know is other than the best we can do with the information at hand.
Bingo! On a whole it's the research/questioning that's lacking I think.

Cancer running rampant, obesity(especially with kids) easily attained because of all these fillers in fucking everything, and one-buck cheeseburgers, etc.

Wouldn't one think it's what you're digesting that's causing most of this?

Should I mention air toxins? You know, if you smell it, it's already ingested(ever smelt that stinky diesel truck you're stuck behind)... Do we have a right to clean oxygen?
__________________
Battle is tricky. Sometimes one can only hope that luck strikes favorably. But without effort, luck is sacrificed.
We The People!

Last edited by Bagit; 04-16-2016 at 04:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-16-2016, 05:58 PM
Prodigalson's Avatar
Prodigalson (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Humboldt Co., CA
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 205
Thanks 357
Default

Well, if we claim the right to clean air, it then becomes a question of, how clean?

Clean as at the top of the Himalayas? Clean as at sea level? How do we allow for lightning caused forest fires? Volcanoes? The dust off the Sahara? We'd have a heck of a time trying to slap EPA regulations on the Earth.

So, again, I believe clean air is something nice that we can fight for, but it'd be pretty impractical to claim it as a right.
__________________
Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-16-2016, 11:34 PM
flyingtart's Avatar
flyingtart (Offline)
Scribbling Master
Official Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 751
Thanks: 119
Thanks 151
Default

Originally Posted by Bagit View Post

Should I mention air toxins? You know, if you smell it, it's already ingested(ever smelt that stinky diesel truck you're stuck behind)... Do we have a right to clean oxygen?
You've touched on the real problem with so-called rights. Your right to clean air impacts on someone else's right to smoke, or drive a gas guzzler, or fart without due consideration. So how do we decide whose right is more important?
__________________
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:37 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

someone named Mark Kreslins thinks "Constitutional RIghts" is a misnomer (and I agree)

http://markkreslins.com/constitution...ts-a-misnomer/

...if you believe the “Constitution” grants rights, then you are subject to the mechanisms built into the Constitution to provide for those rights. Namely, you submit yourself to a belief that the Supreme Court is the final arbiter as to what is and isn’t a Constitutional “right.” That didn’t play out to well for Dred Scott in 1857, the 127,000 Japanese interned during WWII or 56,000,000 unborn babies since Roe v. Wade now did it? How well did those “Constitutional Rights” work for them? Not too well now did they?

If you accept the premise that you have Constitutional rights, you are no more than a pawn in a massive scam where your freedoms, your unalienable rights and your political rights are determined by a simple majority of nine politically connected lawyers in black robes (the supreme court) or by 545 largely sycophants (Congress) in Washington DC. That’s who determines what your “Constitutional rights” are…or are not!
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-25-2016, 07:57 AM
wyf's Avatar
wyf (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK, bottom half
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 135
Thanks 125
Default

Sounds like Kreslin is a jerk.
__________________
How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. ~ Anais Nin
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-25-2016, 02:02 PM
Bagit's Avatar
Bagit (Offline)
Dungeon Keeper
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Atlantis; near the west shores of Zingara
Posts: 5,428
Thanks: 878
Thanks 490
Default

Do we agree there should be a failsafe committee made up of common folk to checkmate/stall/thwart/change certain policies? Well, it will never happen, because governments are past the point of no return, I fear.

And what about the public restroom fiasco in America now. A basic right to use the jon in the midst of the same gender is threatened. Pretty soon there's going to be standup stalls in the women's bathroom.

Just where does the transgender use the bathroom? I say if it has a penis it belongs in the MEN. Period. Two vaginas and a penis? MEN!

WTH is wrong with people!
__________________
Battle is tricky. Sometimes one can only hope that luck strikes favorably. But without effort, luck is sacrificed.
We The People!

Last edited by Bagit; 04-25-2016 at 06:14 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-25-2016, 08:17 PM
Prodigalson's Avatar
Prodigalson (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Humboldt Co., CA
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 205
Thanks 357
Default

I say open them up and let anyone pee where they want. I don't see why everyone thinks it's such a big issue, anyway. It would eliminate the embarrassment of dads taking their little girl to the restroom in the mall, end the long lines for the women at events, and end the horror of homophobes, of little Johnny being molested in the loo.

Ain't no queer gonna mess around some little boy with Momma watching.
__________________
Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 04-25-2016, 09:04 PM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Originally Posted by wyf View Post
Sounds like Kreslin is a jerk.
Did you really read it? And based on the US, what part of it can you factually disagree with?
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 04-26-2016, 12:36 AM
wyf's Avatar
wyf (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK, bottom half
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 135
Thanks 125
Default

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Did you really read it? And based on the US, what part of it can you factually disagree with?
56,000,000 unborn babies since Roe v. Wade now did it? How well did those “Constitutional Rights” work for them? Not too well now did they?


This goes back to loudmouth men dictating what is right for women.

If you accept the premise that you have Constitutional rights, you are no more than a pawn in a massive scam where your freedoms, your unalienable rights and your political rights are determined by a simple majority of nine politically connected lawyers...

Is he instead advocating anarchy? What exactly is his point?
__________________
How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. ~ Anais Nin
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 04-26-2016, 08:04 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Actually, he (Kreslin) advocates for secession and human scale republics versus empire.

Kreslin intimates that if you base your "rights" on a constitution written by humans, then be prepared for your rights to always interpreted by humans.

It's a fair bit of intellectual nihilism to go from that to "he must be for anarchy".

56,000,000 unborn babies since Roe v. Wade now did it? How well did those “Constitutional Rights” work for them? Not too well now did they?


This goes back to loudmouth men dictating what is right for women.
Is that what you think?
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-03-2016, 02:48 AM
wyf's Avatar
wyf (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK, bottom half
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 135
Thanks 125
Default

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Kreslin intimates that if you base your "rights" on a constitution written by humans, then be prepared for your rights to always interpreted by humans.
As opposed to what? Using the bible, or any given literary tract as the basis for your rights? Because they never get misconstrued or misinterpreted on purpose or bastardised to suit the ruling class, do they?

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
It's a fair bit of intellectual nihilism to go from that to "he must be for anarchy".
Really? breaking up the nation into feudal groups and denying the rule of (man-made) law?



Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Is that what you think?
Yes. Sounds like he wants us to go back to being docile, child-breeding spare ribs.
__________________
How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. ~ Anais Nin
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-03-2016, 07:34 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Do you know the difference between human scale republics and feudal societies? From your responses I think not.
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-03-2016, 07:42 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Originally Posted by wyf View Post
That is the internet default.

Knowledge is based on fact.

Dumb knowledge is based on information. The internet is full of information.

Remember when most of the world believed in global warming but a lot of americans didn't? Remember all the information available on the net that was cited as being proof that global warming wasn't happening?

information is not fact. It's like Mohican's evasiveness and smoke and mirrors, it presents itself as reasonable so people don't question it because it suits their argument.
I tell you things and you don't seem to be able to discern an answer, or it's an answer that's not acceptable in your world view so you seem to go binary.

I've given you answers several times, but you can't figure them out.

Say, have you ever heard of a Maunder Minimum?
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-03-2016, 08:19 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Originally Posted by wyf View Post
As opposed to what? Using the bible, or any given literary tract as the basis for your rights? Because they never get misconstrued or misinterpreted on purpose or bastardised to suit the ruling class, do they?
Using the US Constitution, or before that the Magna Carta is using a literary tract, written by men, to determine your "rights".

It is true that the Bible or other religious literature have been used by humans for bad purposes but based on my experiences, judgements, etc I will take Godly people over a system becoming more and more degraded by the day. The descent of the vaunted "constitutional" system is becoming more apparent by the day.


Originally Posted by wyf View Post
Really? breaking up the nation into feudal groups and denying the rule of (man-made) law?
Some or all of the pieces might be "feudal" groups, but using history as a guide some wouldn't. And depending on who is running a "feudal" group, I could prefer it to what 'Murrica has devolved into.

So to you it's a binary choice. It's either "We Are The World", or it's some imagined returned to dark ages.



Originally Posted by wyf View Post
Yes. Sounds like he wants us to go back to being docile, child-breeding spare ribs.
Again, a nihilistic, binary interpretation on your part. "If he doesn't by into whatever current thing I'm subscribing to, he wants women to be all barefoot and pregnant."

Because all people who mouth the right feminist words are always good, and people who hold tradition all want women as chattel. I get your point, because at some point you have told me you know my grandfather better than I did, even though you never met the man.....
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-03-2016, 08:35 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
You've touched on the real problem with so-called rights. Your right to clean air impacts on someone else's right to smoke, or drive a gas guzzler, or fart without due consideration. So how do we decide whose right is more important?
You are asking a very good question. Some can not be avoided.

How would you reduce impact from "gas guzzlers"? Some can be avoided only through extreme measures. Like herding 99% of people into urban centers, and only people needed for raising food, extracting resources, etc are allowed "outside". Then transport via horse drawn wagons to rail, with the trains being driven by electricity by three zillion windmills, that failing some "Nuklar" power in an isolated area. Of course, forcing everyone to be urban animals would create a set of rights related problems all of its own.


Or you could take the approach of smaller units, an more freedom of association, so that people who want to live without cars for "pure are" can do so, and then people that want cars can do so.

In reality, today's "gas" guzzlers are very clean.
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-03-2016, 02:19 PM
wyf's Avatar
wyf (Offline)
Homer's Odyssey Was Nothing
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK, bottom half
Posts: 1,098
Thanks: 135
Thanks 125
Default

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
It is true that the Bible or other religious literature have been used by humans for bad purposes but based on my experiences, judgements, etc I will take Godly people over a system becoming more and more degraded by the day.
So is an eye for an eye a suitable alternative to a legal system that has evolved over many years?

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
So to you it's a binary choice. It's either "We Are The World", or it's some imagined returned to dark ages.
You can lol all you like, but its a childish response. You can go live in your bubble. Your states, united, are stronger than they would be as individual nation states, with less chance of being ruled by some despotic maniac like Trump. It reduces to zero the chance of wars between states - much like war now within a united Europe is unimaginable.

I don't see it as being binary, but seeing the world beyond that you long for through grandpappy's rose tinted spectacles of the good old days.

Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Because all people who mouth the right feminist words are always good, and people who hold tradition all want women as chattel.
Bullshit, Mohican, on all counts. The world you imagine to be so great died 200 years ago. Mouthing words is nothing, even you can do that (but I wouldn't expect you to take your traditional hat off long enough to consider any other view) and 'tradition' is just the shit people used to do. It doesn't mean it's desirable or relevant in the 21st century.
__________________
How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. ~ Anais Nin
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-04-2016, 02:54 AM
Binx B
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

States rights, human scale republics, even "smaller government" in some cases, they're all just different kinds of code for the fantasy that white, male Christians and their women might someday have their own enclaves of whatever size where they have all the power, and nobody from the outside can tell them what to do.

And if you don't like it, you can go to your own enclave or back to wherever you're from, with your different colors and nationalities and weird religions and perverted sexual preferences and all your whining about rights of one kind or another.

And we can have a little version of what America was meant to be, a white Christian nation, a city on a hill, not the heathen, multi-cultural, secular cesspool it has become where people are forced by an oppressive empire to coexist.

I have a dream!

Last edited by Binx B; 05-04-2016 at 12:11 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to For This Useful Post:
wyf (05-05-2016)
Reply

  WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Zombies Rights? PRPerson Writers' Cafe 6 07-31-2011 09:41 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:50 PM.

vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.