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Old 05-26-2017, 01:03 AM
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Went to see Nimko Ali last night, she did a talk entitled 'there is no such thing as oversharing'. We're having a festival of ideas in Bristol.

In Somalia most women undergo some form of FGM, the removal of the clitoris, part of the labia, sometimes the vagina is sewn shut. It's a form of abuse which predates Islam by perhaps thousands of years. You can imagine how dangerous, disfiguring and debilitating this stuff is. Naturally the vast majority of people find it to be an utterly repugnant and contemptible practice. However you often see tolerance granted towards horrendous behaviour so long as it's 'traditional'.

Ali's MO is essentially just not shutting up, being loud, vocal and persistent whilst talking about things which some might find uncomfortable. Keeping girls silent, she says, is a key part of what allows the ideology to perpetuate.

The talk was largely focussed on patriarchy as the structure which underpinned FGM. This was/is in effect men exerting power over women by diminishing their sexuality and removing control of their own bodies. Whilst that made sense to me I did ask something quite controversial so brace yourself...

If FGM is strictly possible because of patriarchy presumably all women are already converted... ie: women believe FGM to be violence, and are forced into it by a patriarchal system. However for me both genders must play a role in order for the practice to persist. The women, the men, the boys and the girls are indoctrinated into the belief. The women are the victims, but teaching boys that FGM is necessary is also abuse.

It is predominantly women who actually carry out the procedure on young girls within the family. Because of this intergenerational cycle of abuse and indoctrination many Somali women do not believe FGM to be violence, just as their male counterparts do not. I think the struggle is therefore characterised more accurately as a fight between progressive and archaic thinking, or really the young and the old, and requires a break away from tradition on both sides of the gender divide.

So, is it intergenerational indoctrination and abuse perpetrated by parents on children?

Or, is it really a fight between men and women?

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Old 05-26-2017, 02:04 AM
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I don't see how your question is all that controversial.

It's because of "intergenerational indoctrination" -- but it seems logical to me that women would have to be complicit or at the least resigned to the practice.

For it to end, it will have to evolve into a "fight between men and women" -- because women in the communities where this happens will need to be involved in any movement to stop it.

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Old 05-26-2017, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I don't see how your question is all that controversial.

It's because of "intergenerational indoctrination" -- but it seems logical to me that women would have to be complicit or at the least resigned to the practice.

For it to end, it will have to evolve into a "fight between men and women" -- because women in the communities where this happens will need to be involved in any movement to stop it.
I don't view it as a fight between men and women. I see it as a fight between a barbaric culture and one that that is trying to move away from that barbarism.

What John didn't comment on:
Went to see Nimko Ali last night, she did a talk entitled 'there is no such thing as oversharing'. We're having a festival of ideas in Bristol.

In Somalia most women undergo some form of FGM, the removal of the clitoris, part of the labia, sometimes the vagina is sewn shut. It's a form of abuse which predates Islam by perhaps thousands of years.
The practice may or may not have predated Mohammed, but the practice remains and is part of the Muslim problem. And cultural problem.

This also is a problem if a host nation allows immigrants to continue this practice.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:55 AM
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I think you are missing my point.

It's going to essentially be a fight between men and women within that community and culture to end the practice -- at least initially.

Women will be at the forefront to end the practice -- and men will resist the change...

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Old 05-26-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I think you are missing my point.

It's going to essentially be a fight between men and women within that community and culture to end the practice -- at least initially.

Women will be at the forefront to end the practice -- and men will resist the change...
I grant you your point, to a degree.

For your scenario to happen, and happen from within
1. The women have to realize that it's wrong, and that it's wrong to indoctrinate the
next generation of women, to the point of refusing to participating in the genital mutilations.
2. To effect change, the women will have to take a stand which could include them losing their lives.
3. At that point a man would have to love his wife enough to not punish her for not keeping the tradition, and then he might see the light and change.

or

The women can import some undamaged women from a neighboring tribe. Men, having sex with a fully intact, functional grown woman will think, "Hey, this is a lot better when they enjoy it,too"

The men at that point would slap themselves on the heads and say, 'for millennia we have turned our women into the equivalent of walking blow up dolls. What were the thinking?
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:38 AM
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Number one and two, perhaps.

Otherwise are you familiar with the marriage practices in cultures where this is prevalent?

Because eventually, it will probably be more about social pressure and a diminishing pool of potential mates than "love."
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Number one and two, perhaps.

Otherwise are you familiar with the marriage practices in cultures where this is prevalent?

Because eventually, it will probably be more about social pressure and a diminishing pool of potential mates than "love."
In bold. You got me there, Myer.
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I don't see how your question is all that controversial.
No, perhaps not. But the room I don't think were interested in hearing anything which suggested women had a part in the perpetration of the act. What couldn't really be questioned was the universal victimhood of all females involved. Which again I DO understand, but I can't completely accept that victimhood and guilt isn't at least somewhat shared between the sexes.
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Old 06-11-2017, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
I grant you your point, to a degree.

For your scenario to happen, and happen from within
1. The women have to realize that it's wrong, and that it's wrong to indoctrinate the
next generation of women, to the point of refusing to participating in the genital mutilations.
2. To effect change, the women will have to take a stand which could include them losing their lives.
3. At that point a man would have to love his wife enough to not punish her for not keeping the tradition, and then he might see the light and change.

or

The women can import some undamaged women from a neighboring tribe. Men, having sex with a fully intact, functional grown woman will think, "Hey, this is a lot better when they enjoy it,too"

The men at that point would slap themselves on the heads and say, 'for millennia we have turned our women into the equivalent of walking blow up dolls. What were the thinking?
I don't think love enters into many relationships there. And anyone who enjoys fucking goats and young boys, and thinks of women as cattle, is not likely to notice or care whether a woman is enjoying herself, and if he did, he would likely suspect it would lead to her wanting to enjoy herself more, without him, and reinforce the reasoning behind the practice in the first place.
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Went to see Nimko Ali last night, she did a talk entitled 'there is no such thing as oversharing'. We're having a festival of ideas in Bristol.

In Somalia most women undergo some form of FGM, the removal of the clitoris, part of the labia, sometimes the vagina is sewn shut. It's a form of abuse which predates Islam by perhaps thousands of years. You can imagine how dangerous, disfiguring and debilitating this stuff is. Naturally the vast majority of people find it to be an utterly repugnant and contemptible practice. However you often see tolerance granted towards horrendous behaviour so long as it's 'traditional'.

Ali's MO is essentially just not shutting up, being loud, vocal and persistent whilst talking about things which some might find uncomfortable. Keeping girls silent, she says, is a key part of what allows the ideology to perpetuate.

The talk was largely focussed on patriarchy as the structure which underpinned FGM. This was/is in effect men exerting power over women by diminishing their sexuality and removing control of their own bodies. Whilst that made sense to me I did ask something quite controversial so brace yourself...

If FGM is strictly possible because of patriarchy presumably all women are already converted... ie: women believe FGM to be violence, and are forced into it by a patriarchal system. However for me both genders must play a role in order for the practice to persist. The women, the men, the boys and the girls are indoctrinated into the belief. The women are the victims, but teaching boys that FGM is necessary is also abuse.

It is predominantly women who actually carry out the procedure on young girls within the family. Because of this intergenerational cycle of abuse and indoctrination many Somali women do not believe FGM to be violence, just as their male counterparts do not. I think the struggle is therefore characterised more accurately as a fight between progressive and archaic thinking, or really the young and the old, and requires a break away from tradition on both sides of the gender divide.

So, is it intergenerational indoctrination and abuse perpetrated by parents on children?

Or, is it really a fight between men and women?
Hey JC! You're back!
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:42 AM
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Apparently, without going all sociobiology, in the mammal world, females are distributed by resources and males are distributed by females. Without going all sociobiology, is this all that mammal battle of the sexes boils down to?
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:34 AM
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In the Western world, men like to think they run things, in the face of all evidence to the contrary (what man will truly go against the wishes of his wife?) Anytime we balk at doing what they want, they only need to entice us into bed, and we become putty in their hands (well, figuratively).

However, a woman who gets no pleasure from the act would be less likely to entice a man to perform it, and a man who doesn't see his wife in the throes of orgasm is less likely to have his heart go all melty on him,causing him to do things he would not normally do, "Because I love you."

I believe this is the thinking behind these mutilations: the unwillingness to allow women into the decision making process, and a macho refusal to feel love.
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Old 06-13-2017, 06:23 PM
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A hit of prolactin will do the trick
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
In the Western world, men like to think they run things, in the face of all evidence to the contrary (what man will truly go against the wishes of his wife?) Anytime we balk at doing what they want, they only need to entice us into bed, and we become putty in their hands (well, figuratively).

However, a woman who gets no pleasure from the act would be less likely to entice a man to perform it, and a man who doesn't see his wife in the throes of orgasm is less likely to have his heart go all melty on him,causing him to do things he would not normally do, "Because I love you."

I believe this is the thinking behind these mutilations: the unwillingness to allow women into the decision making process, and a macho refusal to feel love.
I think the last point sums it up in terms of a motivating mindset.

On the point of men liking to think that they run things...

I think it's more a case of everyone likes to think that men run things, because we need someone to blame for all the... well... fuck ups and catastrophes.

I wonder if when Beyonce says 'Who runs the world? -- girls!' she's also willing to accept the tonne heap of guilt that comes with that. Or, do girls just run all the nice fluffy bits... like pop music and short shorts?

On the subject of FGM, sure you could look at patriarchy, but you could also look at religion, tribalism, irrationality, refusal to step into modernity and a clinging to ancient practices and superstition...

Given these aspects you might say people are victims of their own culture. The question is then, do women hold influence within culture? Well firstly Nimko would be speaking in utter futility if they didn't. And in a wider respect, who's raising the kids? Remember what Lenin said...
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Hey JC! You're back!
Yo! Yeah sort of... I don't really write anymore.

I don't really know what the battle of the sexes is about, it seems almost mystical. Y'know we say stuff like there aren't enough women in X profession. But I never see the stats for unsuccessful/successful applicants -- between genders, taking into account qualifications -- in these cases which seems to me to be the crucial indicator for any kind of discrimination. And then it gets more complicated still because then you'll say 'it's all men on the board'. But where do these men come from? Some tiny elite section of the population... so then it's not just women excluded from the top but... normal folk in general etc etc etc. And all the while the proposed solutions are all government based and for the expansion and intrusion of the state into every facet of society and I'm thinking... this sucks.

We don't treat the lack of male primary school teachers with the same amount of concern. Why? Because in the absence of the mystical matriarchy argument we just assume it's not really what blokes want to do...
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Yo! Yeah sort of... I don't really write anymore.

I don't really know what the battle of the sexes is about, it seems almost mystical. Y'know we say stuff like there aren't enough women in X profession. But I never see the stats for unsuccessful/successful applicants -- between genders, taking into account qualifications -- in these cases which seems to me to be the crucial indicator for any kind of discrimination. And then it gets more complicated still because then you'll say 'it's all men on the board'. But where do these men come from? Some tiny elite section of the population... so then it's not just women excluded from the top but... normal folk in general etc etc etc. And all the while the proposed solutions are all government based and for the expansion and intrusion of the state into every facet of society and I'm thinking... this sucks.

We don't treat the lack of male primary school teachers with the same amount of concern. Why? Because with the lack of the mystical matriarchy argument we just assume it's not really what blokes want to do...
I never really have written, good to see you back though, everything going ok?

I can answer your first response to Prodigalson to help answer this question, in the primate world if a male wants to bang heaps of females to sire many young it would work in his favour if each female went through oestrus in turn, he could then bang one and move along in succession through each female, only needing to defend one receptive female at a time. But from the female perspective it means this one male will have many children to care for (he will have to share his care). So if the females all decided to have their cycles align the male will have to choose only a select few to bang as he cannot possibly defend all the receptive females, meaning the male will spend more time with the fewer offspring. The female could also hide her receptiveness and have a subordinate male believe he is the father and therefore care for the alpha male young etc etc. Thus female strategy can influence male behavioural ecology.

Now not wanting to go all Sociobiology here, but there could be a generalised (average) difference in objectives between the sexes that leads towards sometimes-conflicting-behaviours.

Not wanting to go all Sociobiology here, consider the following made up mammal story,

Female mammals are distributed by resources and males are distributed by females. One day in the animal kingdom a baboon creates money as a token of energy expenditure/resources, and proudly states, "no more spending time foraging, if you have heaps of these tokens you can pay for others to do so, huzzah!" The female baboons see this and think to themselves, "hey shit! If I had heaps of those I am Sociobiologically fulfilled but look at how it is distributed, the males have most of them!" This is because when the males looked at the money they were all like "hey shit! If I had heaps of those, females will be drawn towards me making me sociobiologically fulfilled, I'm going to be a terrible fighting asshole bully to all other baboons to get as much money possible!". Result: a hypothetical society that does not represent ours.
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Old 06-14-2017, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Female mammals are distributed by resources and males are distributed by females. One day in the animal kingdom a baboon creates money as a token of energy expenditure/resources, and proudly states, "no more spending time foraging, if you have heaps of these tokens you can pay for others to do so, huzzah!" The female baboons see this and think to themselves, "hey shit! If I had heaps of those I am Sociobiologically fulfilled but look at how it is distributed, the males have most of them!" This is because when the males looked at the money they were all like "hey shit! If I had heaps of those, females will be drawn towards me making me sociobiologically fulfilled, I'm going to be a terrible fighting asshole bully to all other baboons to get as much money possible!". Result: a hypothetical society that does not represent ours.
Hey man -- we're totally post modern, post biology stay-at-home dads, professional mums, and daycare dependents over here! Screw you and your archaic notions conveniently disguised as 'made up' hypotheticals!

We just don't want to accept it -- the idea that for women sex is about resources and for men money is about sex sends people cray cray.

Female dependency on men for resources has diminished, due to increased earning potentials and the welfare state. There was a programme on Channel 4 recently called 'single mum club' and the general pronouncement was 'who needs men!?' We've been hearing that for quite some time now.

So, less people sticking with unhappy marriages/relationships. But perhaps less thought put into suitors. Having a baby with some unknown with no prospects isn't as catastrophic as it used to be; indeed in some places it's pretty much the norm.

So then you have a bunch of fatherless homes. And there are a bunch of nasty stats about kids from single parent households. But, is single-parentdom a cause of all these things (such as jail bound kids etc) or just another effect of other socio-economic factors?
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:10 AM
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As single parent households become generational, then you're going to have more and more people who won't take relationships seriously and who can't appreciate what should be the obvious benefits of a two parent family. They don't know any better and there is no incentive to make it work. It's pretty sad to me.

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Old 06-14-2017, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Hey man -- we're totally post modern, post biology stay-at-home dads, professional mums, and daycare dependents over here! Screw you and your archaic notions conveniently disguised as 'made up' hypotheticals!

We just don't want to accept it -- the idea that for women sex is about resources and for men money is about sex sends people cray cray.

Female dependency on men for resources has diminished, due to increased earning potentials and the welfare state. There was a programme on Channel 4 recently called 'single mum club' and the general pronouncement was 'who needs men!?' We've been hearing that for quite some time now.

So, less people sticking with unhappy marriages/relationships. But perhaps less thought put into suitors. Having a baby with some unknown with no prospects isn't as catastrophic as it used to be; indeed in some places it's pretty much the norm.

So then you have a bunch of fatherless homes. And there are a bunch of nasty stats about kids from single parent households. But, is single-parentdom a cause of all these things (such as jail bound kids etc) or just another effect of other socio-economic factors?
Yeah but that whole "cray cray" feeling is because we do not want to be lowly beasts, we are supposed to be human, we are supposed of be models of God, and if our society can be modelled the same as hierarchical primate societies than would this reflect bad on humanity?

I agree that we should be "totally post modern, post biology stay-at-home dads, professional mums, and daycare dependents over here" and the hypothetical is naked without the different strategies the lowly beasts can use. For example, suppose a baboon was into caring, even though they were a male, the baboon could take a female "on safari" find a little nest away from the population and grow old with her.

But when we look at the population as a whole, we are probably distracted from these peripheral baboons by the dumb-ass males sitting in the middle of the society screaming and eating other baboon-folk, and the female baboons acting out the lyrics to a Meghan Trainor song (no offence to Meghan Trainor and I feel that Meghan is being somewhat ironic but cannot talk on her behalf). If the population as a whole is organised and structured by these central dumb-ass baboons it fits a hierarchical primate society.
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Old 06-15-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
No, perhaps not. But the room I don't think were interested in hearing anything which suggested women had a part in the perpetration of the act. What couldn't really be questioned was the universal victimhood of all females involved. Which again I DO understand, but I can't completely accept that victimhood and guilt isn't at least somewhat shared between the sexes.
I think this is a large part of the problems faced getting past ideas of oppression in the female population. In order to move forward and change things, there needs to be acknowledgement among females of their roles in perpetuating what we see as male driven discrimination, mysogyny etc. And because women have seen themselves as the victim in society for so long, its hard for a lot of us to accept our complicity in it.

So yeah, taking that into account, its got to be the latter option in your op. I mean, as a woman in 21st century western society, even looking back at my mother's views from the sixties and seventies, which were supposed to be ultra feminist and forward thinking, feels like observing a strangely backward and also oddly bigotted worldview in which men were the enemy and women were always the victims who had to fight back. But the reality that women were the ones raising their sons and daughters to continue traditional social roles, was never acknowledged.

We all need to recognise our part in the oppression of future generations based on whatever idealogy we subscribe to, whether its religious superstition or social indoctrination. So yeah, it will always be the kids fighting against the stifling restriction of their parents' old fashioned and sometimes dangerous ideas about things.
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Old 06-15-2017, 04:17 PM
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CandraH?

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So happy to see you here.
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  #22  
Old 06-16-2017, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
I agree that we should be "totally post modern, post biology stay-at-home dads, professional mums, and daycare dependents over here"
Meh -- I'm not totally sold on this brand of post modernism. I find myself nodding along to the critics of daycare and formula milk.

Since I was last here I had to go through family court over child access and wow... whole 'nother story that doesn't really fit into the patriarchy narrative.

But, when I lived with my ex partner I didn't want her to work or for them to be in daycare. I don't mean I would stop her from working if she really wanted to, but I was happy to argue for the benefits of staying at home. And the idea that this is outmoded, and that women feel ashamed, or somehow wasted being 'just a stay at home mum' really irritates me. I don't know if this is strictly a result of feminism, but any tract I would say which downgrades the raising of children in comparison to having a career (which no one actually likes doing btw, I think job satisfaction might be at 30 per cent) doesn't do anyone any favours.

The obvious truth is that it's the most important job on the planet. Going back to the OP we live a world of intergenerational child abuse and hand-me-down skullduggery. As a model, this engenders most of the undesirable behaviour within society, how many violent criminals, drug addicts and extremists had terrible childhoods?
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  #23  
Old 06-16-2017, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
We all need to recognise our part in the oppression of future generations based on whatever idealogy we subscribe to, whether its religious superstition or social indoctrination. So yeah, it will always be the kids fighting against the stifling restriction of their parents' old fashioned and sometimes dangerous ideas about things.
Indeed.

And it's a two way street.

So say things like divorce court and family court -- most people who aren't crazy would say both institutions are actually skewed in favour of women. But, the justice system is male dominated, most judges are men, most legislators are men. So of course there is male complicity, where there is a tendency for some women to see themselves as victims, there is a tendency for some men to treat them as such, thus the self reinforcing system.

oh and hi
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Meh -- I'm not totally sold on this brand of post modernism. I find myself nodding along to the critics of daycare and formula milk.

Since I was last here I had to go through family court over child access and wow... whole 'nother story that doesn't really fit into the patriarchy narrative.

But, when I lived with my ex partner I didn't want her to work or for them to be in daycare. I don't mean I would stop her from working if she really wanted to, but I was happy to argue for the benefits of staying at home. And the idea that this is outmoded, and that women feel ashamed, or somehow wasted being 'just a stay at home mum' really irritates me. I don't know if this is strictly a result of feminism, but any tract I would say which downgrades the raising of children in comparison to having a career (which no one actually likes doing btw, I think job satisfaction might be at 30 per cent) doesn't do anyone any favours.

The obvious truth is that it's the most important job on the planet. Going back to the OP we live a world of intergenerational child abuse and hand-me-down skullduggery. As a model, this engenders most of the undesirable behaviour within society, how many violent criminals, drug addicts and extremists had terrible childhoods?
I'm sorry to hear the problems you are having.

I agree with your sentiments that child raising should be given greater value, I.e. greater resources, and in fact if it did, women will (just because of how the world actually works rather than how people want the world to work) be valued more. Why doesn't it? Well it all comes back to the savage beast baboons central to a society screaming dumb shit, throwing crap, and beating up other baboons.

God exists JC, exactly as depicted in the Old Testament, our agency is limited by It, and we are made in It's image, no Gods should be worshipped before It, for It is a jealous God, quick to anger, and those It does not like will be cursed for many generations.
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
I think this is a large part of the problems faced getting past ideas of oppression in the female population. In order to move forward and change things, there needs to be acknowledgement among females of their roles in perpetuating what we see as male driven discrimination, mysogyny etc. And because women have seen themselves as the victim in society for so long, its hard for a lot of us to accept our complicity in it.

So yeah, taking that into account, its got to be the latter option in your op. I mean, as a woman in 21st century western society, even looking back at my mother's views from the sixties and seventies, which were supposed to be ultra feminist and forward thinking, feels like observing a strangely backward and also oddly bigotted worldview in which men were the enemy and women were always the victims who had to fight back. But the reality that women were the ones raising their sons and daughters to continue traditional social roles, was never acknowledged.

We all need to recognise our part in the oppression of future generations based on whatever idealogy we subscribe to, whether its religious superstition or social indoctrination. So yeah, it will always be the kids fighting against the stifling restriction of their parents' old fashioned and sometimes dangerous ideas about things.
Here's a thought,
Say if every person who twittered, posted, commented etc on having gender equality, actually treated gender equally would there still be a problem? If there was a significant number of people, gender inequality wouldn't be an issue, but as gender inequality still is an issue, is the reason a) the people who fight for it do not have any agency, b) the people who "fight" for it don't actually care, c) as you mention, the people who "fight" for it quickly fall back into traditional roles once they log out of social media, d) there isn't a significant number of people, e) gender inequality isn't an issue, f) other
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
CandraH?

Could it be?

So happy to see you here.
Lol, yep in the cyber flesh. And thanks! Though, not sure if thats happiness to see me or just excitement at seeing a familiar face pop up among the tumbleweeds.

Still, its good to see you here too. Just wish it was in better circumstances.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Indeed.

And it's a two way street.

So say things like divorce court and family court -- most people who aren't crazy would say both institutions are actually skewed in favour of women. But, the justice system is male dominated, most judges are men, most legislators are men. So of course there is male complicity, where there is a tendency for some women to see themselves as victims, there is a tendency for some men to treat them as such, thus the self reinforcing system.

oh and hi
Yeah, thats a good example of the other side of the street, men being complicit in an unfair system that penalises other men based on their gender.

I get why divorce and family courts are skewed in favour of women, given all the years previously where women had no say in what happened to them or their children during a divorce, if divorce was even possible etc. But I recognise that going to the opposite extreme and treating men with the same disrespect is not the answer.

I think its an unfortunate aspect of human nature that we have to go to extremes in our attempts to change bad situations or evolve our society. I wish we didn't have to.

Lol, good to see you too. Hope things are going well for you
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Here's a thought,
Say if every person who twittered, posted, commented etc on having gender equality, actually treated gender equally would there still be a problem? If there was a significant number of people, gender inequality wouldn't be an issue, but as gender inequality still is an issue, is the reason a) the people who fight for it do not have any agency, b) the people who "fight" for it don't actually care, c) as you mention, the people who "fight" for it quickly fall back into traditional roles once they log out of social media, d) there isn't a significant number of people, e) gender inequality isn't an issue, f) other
Did I say that re people falling back into traditional roles after shouting about equality on social media? Doesnt sound like my words but that doesnt mean I dont agree.

I think thats another unfortunate aspect of human nature. People being good at talking a good game but not following it up with associated action. What we used to call "all mouth and no action".

So yeah, I think if people who shout about inequality on social media actually treated others as people rather than (insert religious/socially constructed role of choice here), the problem would get sorted much faster because there would be a lot more people leading by example to help change things instead of just spouting about it from their armchairs.

But now I'm just rambling speculations. See what you tablers do? Getting me to actually use my brain. Bah humbug lol.
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  #29  
Old 06-16-2017, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
Lol, yep in the cyber flesh. And thanks! Though, not sure if thats happiness to see me or just excitement at seeing a familiar face pop up among the tumbleweeds.



Still, its good to see you here too. Just wish it was in better circumstances.


The excitement is all for you dear. I have a thing for Scottish chicks who know their way around a chainsaw😆

Also, there aren't many sane people here. I think I'm the only one, so you would make two.
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Old 06-17-2017, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
Did I say that re people falling back into traditional roles after shouting about equality on social media? Doesnt sound like my words but that doesnt mean I dont agree.

I think thats another unfortunate aspect of human nature. People being good at talking a good game but not following it up with associated action. What we used to call "all mouth and no action".

So yeah, I think if people who shout about inequality on social media actually treated others as people rather than (insert religious/socially constructed role of choice here), the problem would get sorted much faster because there would be a lot more people leading by example to help change things instead of just spouting about it from their armchairs.

But now I'm just rambling speculations. See what you tablers do? Getting me to actually use my brain. Bah humbug lol.
Yes, but that is what a "thought for the day" is supposed to do, send a person down their stream of consciousness.

The SJW phenomena is an interesting phenomena because the proponents (given agency) hold the key to their success, or the solution to their problem. For example if 50% + of people believed that climate change (anthropogenic) could be somewhat abetted by reducing household carbon emissions by 10% the problem is easy to solve.
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