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I was moved by Kavanaugh's testimony....

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  #31  
Old 09-29-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
I broadly agree, but do take one issue (which I hope you do not take as a critique of your entire comment): "but not one that needs to be addresses ahead of the issue of thousands of years of subjugation." I am not an apologist for past misdeeds I had no control over, nor should anyone ask me to be.
I dont mean it that way, but honestly, men have had our voices heard for thousands of years. Yeah I was raised on being a man and what that entails and to me, that means I will do everything to give my mother, sister, and daughter a voice finally before another man interjected.

Yeah, it needs to be addressed, but the negative affects to the current movement are something that a true man should set aside. And to be fair, even when it is a man that is a boy the problem is solved right away. Look at Spacey compared to these other accusations. There wasnt even a trial,just a decree. Now, we gotta decide if there will be a trial... That is how men still have a voice even in a movement geared towards children and women.

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  #32  
Old 09-29-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by daes13 View Post
Problem isn't that a 17 year old did not "know" right from wrong, but that society has driven in the stake that it is okay to pester women even if they say no.
Has it? I, and nearly every man I know would be far quicker to jump to a woman's defense than to harass her. Those who pester women are comparatively rare, and somewhat ostracized because of it (if not beat down physically).

But nowadays, you can't even say you'll jump to a woman's defense, because of some shit about thinking women can't handle their own shit, and we shouldn't think that we need to be protecting them when they're quite capable of protecting themselves, thank you - but then something like this comes up where, if it happened, she sure could have used some protection that night, and where were the people who could have protected her?

Probably outside, where they couldn't be accused of some impropriety forty years later, just for being in the room.

Originally Posted by daes13 View Post
Morality is instinctual, the golden rule applies. You know you don't want someone raping or even stamping their dick on your face. So why do it to another?
Morality is not instinctual. It's taught, and learned. There are a lot of people who grew up learning to look out for number one, and sometimes even several lessons don't change that.

Not saying that's right; just saying that's the way it is.
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Old 09-29-2018, 04:32 PM
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I have a slight issue with this idea of protection, which can denote control. Of course we all require protection, otherwise there would be no need to "protect and serve", so an interesting point.

Yes, it is a small minority, of course.

Morality (if that is the term we are choosing) is innate in a social animal such as us. Those most willing to act as part of the group rather than in self-interest are more likely to procreate and pass on their genes.
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Old 09-29-2018, 04:34 PM
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Deleted due to vulgarity. Apologies people. Be kind rewind!
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Old 09-29-2018, 05:06 PM
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Now let's play the game...

Hellen Keller or Zombie


"Aagghagshahahahha"
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
Yes, I have needed some long showers in my past after said pestering, but I have yet to meet a women who could physically impose herself upon me against my will- the fundamental difference.
NacŪa has trouble distinguishing reality from his sex fantasies.
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
NacŪa has trouble distinguishing reality from his sex fantasies.
flyingtart for the very last time I am a SHE not a HE.
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
flyingtart for the very last time I am a SHE not a HE.


Are you from Chad or Senegal?
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  #39  
Old 09-30-2018, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
flyingtart for the very last time I am a SHE not a HE.
No youíre not.
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Are you from Chad or Senegal?
No. Are you from either?
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
No. Are you from either?


No. Iím an American of largely Irish/English decent.

I was just wondering about your apparent English as a second language presentation.
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
No. I’m an American of largely Irish/English decent.

I was just wondering about your apparent English as a second language presentation.
I am of a Spanish and French mix and few others too many to mention.
I live in London and have been for the last 35 years.
I have never been to Chad and Senegal. Have you?
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
I am of a Spanish and French mix and few others too many to mention.
I live in London and have been for the last 35 years.
I have never been to Chad and Senegal. Have you?


No. The farthest Iíve been from the US is Iceland.
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
No. The farthest I’ve been from the US is Iceland.
Well that is furthest then I have been anywhere in the world.
What is Iceland like?
Actually there is a supermarket called Iceland in Britain. That is as far as I know of Iceland. I go there from time to time.
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
No. The farthest Iíve been from the US is Iceland.
Folks around here were sporting "U.S. out of Humboldt Co." bumper stickers a while back, but the farthest I've ever been from the United States would have to be Oakland, CA.

Either that, or Manila, CA., right across the bay from me. The cartoon, "Squidbillies", is a spot-on representation of that little outpost.
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
Am I fundamentally biased here, or is something very wrong?
A man can pull out all the stops; righteous indignation, raising his voice, crying, sarcasm. Think about the reaction if a woman did the same thing.

On social media, people were commenting about Ford's whining and her "baby voice..."
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
A man can pull out all the stops; righteous indignation, raising his voice, crying, sarcasm. Think about the reaction if a woman did the same thing.
If a woman did the same thing, you'd just have to switch "man" and "woman" in the above comment, and it still wouldn't mean a thing.

Everyone is going to have a different reaction, and every display of indignation/voice raising/crying/sarcasm has a different cause.

This obsession we have for robot-like behavior is making us all look like fools. Someone's unhappy, they have every right to express that. Some do it better than others, and on a scale of one to ten, ten is not, "shows absolutely no emotion".

If a person were to return to civilization right now, after a long spot in a cave somewhere, and turned on the TV or got on the web, or just talked to your mindless idiot on the street, they'd think ol' Brett was up there just a-rantin' and a-ravin', chugging quarts of beer and leering at the girls.

It's not he that needs to regain his dignity - it's us.

Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
On social media, people were commenting about Ford's whining and her "baby voice..."
What I just said.
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:41 PM
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I thought you were more astute.

No, when a woman shows her emotions, she's a bitch, she's hysterical etc. etc.

I've seen a many, many times in the corporate world. Not hard to see if you're paying attention. Oh well.
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
I thought you were more astute.

No, when a woman shows her emotions, she's a bitch, she's hysterical etc. etc.

I've seen a many, many times in the corporate world. Not hard to see if you're paying attention. Oh well.
I was astute enough to realize that your opinion is based on what you see in your corner of the world, but you have to remember not everyone resides there.

You made a general statement attributing one reaction to everyone. I happen to know people (including myself) who do not automatically think that about an emotional woman.

It depends on the circumstances.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:57 PM
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Again, no.

I'm talking about women who are in positions where they have some power over men, and the standards are different.

It's not about "my corner of the world." It's something that's well recognized -- I've just happened to see it first hand.
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  #51  
Old 10-02-2018, 06:03 PM
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Here's an idea -- don't take my word for it. Ask some some women about it and get back to me.

PS -- to clarify, I'm not talking about you specifically -- just the general attitude.

Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post

What I just said.
And the point I was making is that for the most part, Ford just used her normal speaking voice and was mocked for sounding like a child, whereas Kavanaugh spoke with a full range of emotion, including tears, and a lot of people praised him for his passionate presentation, although some people thought he was overcompensating.

I think that shows something about how we (and I don't mean EVERYBODY) apply different standards to men and women; and beyond this particular case, I believe these attitudes would have some bearing on whether not someone is considered to be credible.

And I also think we can speak in terms of general attitudes without clarifying every single time that it doesn't apply to everyone. That could get pretty old.

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Old 10-03-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by daes13 View Post
Now let's play the game...

Hellen Keller or Zombie


"Aagghagshahahahha"

I just sprained my wrist laughing.
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Old 10-03-2018, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
People do things when they're young that they're mortified about later on, and having done it, and felt that mortification, are highly unlikely to repeat the action, or allow anyone else to.

I would like to believe this about humans, but I just donít. At least not ones of his intellectual caliber. He was aware of his actions, he was aware of empirical right and wrong from an early age. He was born in a financial/social sweet-spot which allowed him many opportunities, but he knew who he was from a young age. Iím not saying I think heís a monster or anything, but he is an intellectually gifted human, and therefore held to a higher standard by other intellectually gifted humans.

His acting was terrible. Iím not sure I could have done better given the circumstances, but I saw through his bullshit. He gambled in his bid, and I personally think he went the wrong way. However, he may be confirmed anyway, politics being what they are.

The public discussion surrounding this topic is silly. Jesus! How did we decide to let the ďpublic,Ē vote? Worst decision ever!
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:34 PM
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It is pretty silly. When you think about it, very few of our lives will be affected one way or another by this man's confirmation (or not), yet here we all are wasting time dithering about it, while our elected representatives continue to sell us down the river.

Anyone check to see what legislation is working its way down the pike lately? Who was it? TDO (The Dumb One) that claimed he reviewed every bill in its entirety? Not likely, but I'll bet most people don't even know the slightest thing about what's being perpetuated in their name, myself included, most of the time.

Now that's a political discussion I could get involved in, one that actually addressed something that matters.
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Old 10-04-2018, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
It is pretty silly. When you think about it, very few of our lives will be affected one way or another by this man's confirmation (or not), yet here we all are wasting time dithering about it.


Oh, I donít think this is true at all. A firmly conservative court for the next generation could be a big problem for a lot of average people. They may not know it; they may not know why their lives are not working; they may not be aware, but real harm could be done. Decisions like Citizens United, and the rulings on Obama Care have fucked a lot of average joeís in favor of corporate America, and most people donít understand these things (or even know what they really are) but theyíre affected just the same.

I (for one) now have a $3800 per month insurance premium. Itís really a tax, that is a giveaway of government money to the insurance industry, and my choices are to go without medical insurance for my family, or pay $45,000 per year to have it. There is no other choice in my state, and only one carrier. Thatís a decision by the 5-4 Supreme Court. A 6-3 court would allow them to drop the pretense of doing the public good altogether.

And Citizens United... who even knows what that is? Not many people. However, itís a big deal. There are upcoming decisions on gerrymandering, but a conservative court will shoot them down. And if it were a 6-3 liberal court who had congress and the White House, they would too.

I prefer the court divided and reasonably balanced. The leaders of both parties are corrupt, and the court being a political wing is not good for any of us (whether we know it or not).
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Old 10-05-2018, 03:07 PM
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Again, bp, you present valid points, but I still think the dog-and-pony show we're presented with on the nightly (and daily) news is just a diversion.

Does gossip and innuendo need to be reported on as if it's news? Turn on any channel and that's what you get. Newscasters used to try to at least pretend impartiality - now their contempt and distaste is front and center, along with the implication that if you don't agree, you're as vile as the piece of filth they are currently talking about.

This endless muckraking is tiresome. Everyone has some sort of skeleton in their closet, even if it's just a plastic Halloween prop, and the demand for blameless saints is impossible to fulfill, especially since nowadays you don't even have to have done something despicable - you can be nailed to the cross just as tightly for cracking a joke about it in private, years previously.

The level of hatred I've seen between people who would otherwise be friends, all over what someone neither person knows has said or done, is frightening. It's going to lead to bad things, and I don't want to be there, but with a mouth like mine, I'm going to end up popping off at the wrong time, and all hell's going to break loose (not here, but Out There).

I'm two contradictory things, peace-loving, and opinionated, and I'm afraid if things keep going the way they are, the opinionated side will win out, and I don't want that.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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Old 10-05-2018, 03:13 PM
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But, this is pretend news? Good or bad it is all fake. "The level of hate I have seen.." Prod, we have all seen it and grown bored of it mate.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
A man can pull out all the stops; righteous indignation, raising his voice, crying, sarcasm. Think about the reaction if a woman did the same thing.

On social media, people were commenting about Ford's whining and her "baby voice..."
I like to think I have traversed the middle ground, correct me if I am wrong.

In a simple soundbite, my opinion is this, we need to listen to all parties before we can draw a conclusion. When it is a case of "he said- she said" this may result in injustice, which is awful, but do we discard the fundamental edicts of our society in favour of justice against the few? I don't know, honestly. I simply do not know, I see the risks, they scare me, but I do not know.

My position clearly stated. I would add controversially that circa 20% of rape claims prove to be false. Empirical discussion requires all facts.

Last edited by Chinspinner; 10-06-2018 at 06:48 AM..
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
I like to think I have traversed the middle ground, correct me if I am wrong.

In a simple soundbite, my opinion is this, we need to listen to all parties before we can draw a conclusion. When it is a case of "he said- she said" this may result in injustice, which is awful, but do we discard the fundamental edicts of our society in favour of justice against the few? I don't know, honestly. I simply do not know, I see the risks, they scare me, but I do not know.

My position clearly stated. I would add controversially that circa 20% of rape claims prove to be false. Empirical discussion requires all facts.
That's what is ignored by too many folks - the need to examine every case on its own merits - and to recognize that, while a certain percentage of rapes go unreported, a certain percentage of the ones that do, are false.

This does nothing to diminish the trauma a woman (or man) experiences from being raped, but to railroad a man because any questioning of a rape charge is equated with the promotion of 'rape culture' does nothing to correct the wrong of an actual rape.
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:11 AM
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Like I said before, even if the allegations are true, Iím not sure that disqualifies him for the job now. He was a 17 year old kid, drunk at a party, with a 15 year old girl, and while what he did was inappropriate and wrong, there was no rape, and he was in no position of authority over her.

That said, I think a 6-3 ideologically conservative court is going to be bad for us regular folks.
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