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Why are male singers such pussies today?

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  #91  
Old 08-11-2018, 07:30 AM
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Madonna thinks Pop music today sucks, too. http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...unds-same.html

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  #92  
Old 08-13-2018, 06:38 AM
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Sour grapes. Madonna's opinion is about the same as a lot of other old folks who think "music today" is the stuff on the radio or what they promote on the streaming services, etc.

It doesn't work that way anymore. You have to seek out good new music -- no one is going to spoon feed it to you over the radio or MTV like they did in her heyday.
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  #93  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:46 AM
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You can't have a society that feminizes young men and have burly macho singers at the same time. Boys in schools these days are shamed for what once considered "being a boy". The end result is that your boys turn out like Ken Dolls.
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  #94  
Old 08-13-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
Sour grapes. Madonna's opinion is about the same as a lot of other old folks who think "music today" is the stuff on the radio or what they promote on the streaming services, etc.

It doesn't work that way anymore. You have to seek out good new music -- no one is going to spoon feed it to you over the radio or MTV like they did in her heyday.
Some of Madonna's stuff followed the mass-produced pop formula - easy to forget your own journey, I guess.

She also reaped the benefit of the old disco culture - dance music had such exposure then.

She's just reached that age when 'it was better in my day' is always the ready response.
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  #95  
Old 08-13-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
Some of Madonna's stuff followed the mass-produced pop formula - easy to forget your own journey, I guess.

She also reaped the benefit of the old disco culture - dance music had such exposure then.

She's just reached that age when 'it was better in my day' is always the ready response.
You can draw a not very zig-zaggy line from her stuff to the formulaic pop-music we're getting now. All image, not much substance. She's the last person who should be whining about "today's music."

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  #96  
Old 08-13-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by spshane View Post
You can't have a society that feminizes young men and have burly macho singers at the same time. Boys in schools these days are shamed for what once considered "being a boy". The end result is that your boys turn out like Ken Dolls.
Or we're just recognizing that a certain kind of superficial masculinity is a fairly useless social construct -- and guys whose self-esteem is attached to being "macho" are threatened by it. Bummer.

Is that somehow being reflected in popular music? I seriously doubt it. The guy being held out as example in this thread is a pretty straight up R&B singer (today's version of it) he just looks a little nerdy, therefore somehow "feminine." If he was buff or black he wouldn't have come up.

Otherwise, the macho aspect of rock and roll has always been a pose. You could probably easily beat the shit out of any of the noted rock and roll singers -- and their femininity and sexual ambiguity is part of what made them attractive to women -- Elvis, The Beatles, Mick Jagger, Robert Plant, David Bowie, Freddy Mercury? The list goes on. What "burly macho singers" are you talking about? Ha ha ha! Why do people who appear to be relatively intelligent just say shit without thinking it through? It's a mystery.

Yeah, so a kind of watered down, formulaic music is popular these days -- it's about how music is produced and distributed more than anything else.

Have you listened to it and actually traced the path that got us to where we are? Try it -- and you might come to some different conclusions.

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  #97  
Old 08-13-2018, 03:03 PM
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And I wouldn't worry too much. Pendulums go back and forth. Things will settle before people stop reproducing...
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  #98  
Old 08-13-2018, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by spshane
You can't have a society that feminizes young men and have burly macho singers at the same time. Boys in schools these days are shamed for what once considered "being a boy". The end result is that your boys turn out like Ken Dolls.

Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
Or we're just recognizing that a certain kind of superficial masculinity is a fairly useless social construct -- and guys whose self-esteem is attached to being "macho" are threatened by it. Bummer.

Is that somehow being reflected in popular music? I seriously doubt it. The guy being held out as example in this thread is a pretty straight up R&B singer (today's version of it) he just looks a little nerdy, therefore somehow "feminine." If he was buff or black he wouldn't have come up.

Otherwise, the macho aspect of rock and roll has always been a pose. You could probably easily beat the shit out of any of the noted rock and roll singers -- and their femininity and sexual ambiguity is part of what made them attractive to women -- Elvis, The Beatles, Mick Jagger, Robert Plant, David Bowie, Freddy Mercury? The list goes on. What "burly macho singers" are you talking about? Ha ha ha! Why do people who appear to be relatively intelligent just say shit without thinking it through? It's a mystery.

Yeah, so a kind of watered down, formulaic music is popular these days -- it's about how music is produced and distributed more than anything else.

Have you listened to it and actually traced the path that got us to where we are? Try it -- and you might come to some different conclusions.

I get what spshane is getting at, even though he didn't articulate it well. I agree that there seems to be a movement to emasculate boys, and it's a harmful thing. I also think that this "new" notion of not assigning a gender to your child is nut baggery rolled up into bad parenting.
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  #99  
Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
I get what spshane is getting at, even though he didn't articulate it well. I agree that there seems to be a movement to emasculate boys, and it's a harmful thing. I also think that this "new" notion of not assigning a gender to your child is nut baggery rolled up into bad parenting.

I just took the term 'nut baggery' from that post...thanks
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  #100  
Old Yesterday, 04:32 PM
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Due to technology and over-parenting, human beings are softer (for lack of a better term) and less self-reliant than in the past. Women are also taking on roles traditionally held by men, so there is less of a distinction.

So it might appear that men are less "masculine," at least superficially -- but the idea that there is some "movement" intent on emasculating boys is pretty far fetched, to put it nicely...
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  #101  
Old Yesterday, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
but the idea that there is some "movement" intent on emasculating boys is pretty far fetched, to put it nicely...

... there is a movement toward the single parent household, boys of any age need Dads, men folk role models as fixtures within their lives and all kinds of boy tribe shenanigans away from women folk - they adore us but this kind of stuff centers them and makes them confident and happy.

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  #102  
Old Yesterday, 11:22 PM
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That's something that's happening; it's not a "movement."
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  #103  
Old Today, 12:39 AM
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I think the problem is the single parent household in general, as opposed to the traditional family unit, not having two engaged responsible parents as role models.

Maybe I can't talk with authority because I have daughters, but I wonder what I would be do that would be substantially different if I had sons. The thing is, I'm present, I'm involved in raising my children and I try to act and behave in a way that makes me a good role model. I'm sure I'd be doing more "guy things" with them, but I do a lot of those things with my daughters anyway.

It's a paradox in a way, part of the problem is over-parenting. My dad worked all the time and was otherwise not engaged as a parent. but I had the freedom to simply go outside and play with other boys do all the "shenanigans away from women folk." That also has a lot do with how you develop self-reliance, which is harder if everything is planned and organized for you.

Maybe I just need a more specific definition of masculinity, beyond the more superficial male traits I mentioned...
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  #104  
Old Today, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
That's something that's happening; it's not a "movement."
If there is a shift in public opinion with regards what constitutes healthy, good enough parenting I would consider that a movement in cultural expectation. Team work is groovy but in the singular you cannot ‘have it all’. Families need commitment, benign neglect is healthy. Compromise on the validity of family time and status is a compromise on the child and they feel it.

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  #105  
Old Today, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
I think the problem is the single parent household in general, as opposed to the traditional family unit, not having two engaged responsible parents as role models.

Maybe I can't talk with authority because I have daughters, but I wonder what I would be do that would be substantially different if I had sons. The thing is, I'm present, I'm involved in raising my children and I try to act and behave in a way that makes me a good role model. I'm sure I'd be doing more "guy things" with them, but I do a lot of those things with my daughters anyway.

It's a paradox in a way, part of the problem is over-parenting. My dad worked all the time and was otherwise not engaged as a parent. but I had the freedom to simply go outside and play with other boys do all the "shenanigans away from women folk." That also has a lot do with how you develop self-reliance, which is harder if everything is planned and organized for you.

Maybe I just need a more specific definition of masculinity, beyond the more superficial male traits I mentioned...
I agree with Ezam that the term 'movement' is not appropriate here. The percentage of lone parent households has never been higher through changes in society. Sexual liberation has meant the consequences of spontaneous couplings often resulting in unplanned new life - not only can men walk away, but the young women involved are barely equipped or experienced enough to nurture a child themselves. I think its fair to say that not only is there an absence of a strong male role model - a strong female role model is lacking too, at times. I draw on this experience because it shocked and upset me - a young mother with a four year old boy, who ran ahead of his mum into the shop, and giggling, held the door closed against her for fun. The mother flung the door open, sending him flying, picked him up, then slapped his face so hard he went down again. When he stumbled to his feet she spat "Man up you little fucker." I couldn't stay silent and launched into Grace overdrive, but that's irrevelent here. My point is, women are harder, less feminine, less loving and I think its inaccurate to just point at children who grow up without the guidance of a father. A man's understanding of a woman will be grounded in the bond with his mother - and what I witness so often now is ugly and so, so sad.
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  #106  
Old Today, 02:56 AM
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no it is not ‘irrelevant here’
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  #107  
Old Today, 02:57 AM
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you haven’t got a fucking clue what she’s up against
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  #108  
Old Today, 03:03 AM
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... what drove her to that point?

what environment will her ‘little man’ have to swim in
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  #109  
Old Today, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by anna View Post
you haven’t got a fucking clue what she’s up against
What situation would warrant the physical and mental abuse of a toddler anna?
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Old Today, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by anna View Post
... what drove her to that point?

what environment will her ‘little man’ have to swim in

If the only person in his life is beating him and taking her frustrations out on him, I doubt he'll be swimming - just fucking drowning.
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Old Today, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
If the only person in his life is beating him and taking her frustrations out on him, I doubt he'll be swimming - just fucking drowning.
... then is she not drowning too?
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  #112  
Old Today, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
What situation would warrant the physical and mental abuse of a toddler anna?
what constitutes physical and mental abuse of a toddler Grace?
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  #113  
Old Today, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
I agree with Ezam that the term 'movement' is not appropriate here. The percentage of lone parent households has never been higher through changes in society. Sexual liberation has meant the consequences of spontaneous couplings often resulting in unplanned new life - not only can men walk away, but the young women involved are barely equipped or experienced enough to nurture a child themselves. I think its fair to say that not only is there an absence of a strong male role model - a strong female role model is lacking too, at times. I draw on this experience because it shocked and upset me - a young mother with a four year old boy, who ran ahead of his mum into the shop, and giggling, held the door closed against her for fun. The mother flung the door open, sending him flying, picked him up, then slapped his face so hard he went down again. When he stumbled to his feet she spat "Man up you little fucker." I couldn't stay silent and launched into Grace overdrive, but that's irrevelent here. My point is, women are harder, less feminine, less loving and I think its inaccurate to just point at children who grow up without the guidance of a father. A man's understanding of a woman will be grounded in the bond with his mother - and what I witness so often now is ugly and so, so sad.
What's interesting here is what often comes out of this (especially if it's a lower income situation) is a kind of hyper-masculinity or macho that has nothing to do with responsibility or maturity; more like the opposite...
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  #114  
Old Today, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
What's interesting here is what often comes out of this (especially if it's a lower income situation) is a kind of hyper-masculinity or macho that has nothing to do with responsibility or maturity; more like the opposite...
this is equally prevalent in higher earning social status males
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  #115  
Old Today, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by anna View Post
this is equally prevalent in higher earning social status males
Don't know about where you live, or exactly what you mean, but I'm talking more about gang culture or the attitudes inspired by it and how women are treated; pretty over the top. I've seen the exact thing in poor rural cultures, just a different version of it.
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  #116  
Old Today, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by anna View Post
what constitutes physical and mental abuse of a toddler Grace?
Both the NSPCC or the American SPCC have sites if you need to read up.
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  #117  
Old Today, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by anna View Post
this is equally prevalent in higher earning social status males
Child abuse remains synonymous with poverty/low income.

Nobody has suggested that low income families are all dysfunctional or that privileged, professional males don't fall into the category of child abusers - sexual or physical. Percentage wise, the cases are less, but of course they exist.
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