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Let’s talk about the N-word and other naughties.

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  #31  
Old 01-26-2018, 07:11 PM
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I'd say it needn't be said right off like that. It could be established other ways that the opponent is black; Callahan's way of speaking could be illustrated without it.

But... it sounds real, and it sounds like the kind of story your bleeding-heart hair-trigger crybabies won't be reading anyway, so I say go for it.

I mean, what else is he going to say?

"You gonna take the fight with the spook?"

"You gonna fight the jigaboo?"

Etc,etc.

I'm willing to bet "nigger" would be less offensive.

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  #32  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:01 PM
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He might say:

So are you taking the fight? You against the charcoal fists of Midnight Africanus.

Hes a light skinned boy but I bet your knuckles could black him bad enough to make em think he never left the continent.


Or if you want to go a more colorful route:

His cell phone rang. Can you hear him?

Callahan?

Can you hear him?

Who Cal?

The nigger. Its the nigger in a monkey jacket whispering to you from the jungle. Ten large honkey. Ten fuckin large.


Something else I would add that germane to this. Cyrano's Nose Speech. If youre going to do something go big

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFiLIsMieiQ&t=282s
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  #33  
Old 01-27-2018, 07:23 AM
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I used it in a poem -- posted it in a few places. I only got a little mild push back from one reader.

Bottom line -- I thought it was appropriate in the context and I really wouldn't have given a shit what anyone said about it.
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  #34  
Old 01-27-2018, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
I'd say it needn't be said right off like that. It could be established other ways that the opponent is black; Callahan's way of speaking could be illustrated without it.

But... it sounds real, and it sounds like the kind of story your bleeding-heart hair-trigger crybabies won't be reading anyway, so I say go for it.

I mean, what else is he going to say?

"You gonna take the fight with the spook?"

"You gonna fight the jigaboo?"

Etc,etc.

I'm willing to bet "nigger" would be less offensive.

You gonna fight the suntan man?

All racist remarks don't need to be blatantly deprecating.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I used it in a poem -- posted it in a few places. I only got a little mild push back from one reader.



Bottom line -- I thought it was appropriate in the context and I really wouldn't have given a shit what anyone said about it.


Yeah I think my wife and daughter were a little dramatic about it. My other daughter (a writer) didn’t flinch. She told me not to be a pussy😀

The story so far isn’t about the actual fight. Maybe the fight will have to happen, but the tension leading up to it is what I’m after. That word starts the tension.





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  #36  
Old 01-27-2018, 04:00 PM
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Even better. Just call the fighter 'kid' that's derogatory enough to suggest all sorts of weakness, but in who is part of the tension

later we can learn what the kid looks like.. that would hold my attention
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Old 01-27-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
I'm tempted.

Do you think it was worth it in the end?

What makes it worth it more than anything J.C., is imagining your avatar saying what you quoted me on. i almost went and made a meme..
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  #38  
Old 01-27-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Beesauce View Post
Even better. Just call the fighter 'kid' that's derogatory enough to suggest all sorts of weakness, but in who is part of the tension

later we can learn what the kid looks like.. that would hold my attention


The black fighter is a “killer.” A smooth flawless beater of other men. He’s not a kid.

Mickey is afraid to fight him.


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  #39  
Old 01-28-2018, 03:30 PM
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Scrap the idea. Clearly you are way out of your element with the subject matter. The use of the n word comes off like a cheap plot device like the black cat named Tyson. Next thing you know he will be in the garage working on the dog house for his black Lab named Ali.
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  #40  
Old 01-28-2018, 03:54 PM
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Nothing wrong with being out of your element. That is in fact the whole point of the site. Find something youre not good at and then work on it until you are. This isnt the place for publishing, this is the place for critique and development.
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Old 01-28-2018, 04:06 PM
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an honest crit is its own reward....
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Old 01-28-2018, 04:34 PM
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Aye I reckon so but does it really negate my point?

Edit: Put it like this the critique is to help lift up the writer not the critic though it might do so.
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Old 01-28-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaines View Post
Scrap the idea. Clearly you are way out of your element with the subject matter. The use of the n word comes off like a cheap plot device like the black cat named Tyson. Next thing you know he will be in the garage working on the dog house for his black Lab named Ali.


It is a cheap plot device, a set-up. There’s no dog house or dog named Ali, though. Do you watch boxing?

This little piece is just the first few sentences. A couple jabs, sizing up. The fight hasn’t started yet.

Appreciate the input.


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  #44  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:55 PM
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blueWPC..

No, it does not negate your point. The critic puts out the critique. In essence they are one and the same being of the same voice and thought. It is inescapable.

There is nothing wrong with being out of ones element but how does the writer know they are? Should that issue be ignored by the reader or called to task?

In the end it is up to the writer to decide if the crit does or does not hold water.
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  #45  
Old 01-28-2018, 06:31 PM
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@gaines I dont see the relevancy of your opening. Of course the critic and the critique are inextricably linked so maybe its my own failing but I dont understand what you mean by that.

Ontologically though youre incorrect in equating critique and critic because one is obviously producer and the other produced nor is their essence the same because the critique is an accomplished thing whereas the critic is ongoing nor does the critique necessarily reflect the actual feelings of the critic. Thats of course the whole point of deception which let me be damn clear Im not accusing you of. I take you at face value that thats not the case here but it is a fact that the product is not necessarily congruent with the producer.

Now you ask the question how does the writer know they are out of their element. Ill go out on a limb and brian can correct me if Im wrong but I think when most people submit to a writers site there is the tacit acknowledgment that they need to improve to whatever degree upon their craft. And he didnt misrepesent himself. He came out with a question. Is this a no go or yea. So it invites itself to criticism whereas it seems to me and seriously if Im wrong tell me and Ill leave it at that but it seems to me that youre taking it as hes presenting it in final form or that the incipient form has no potential for improvement hence my comments on him being out of element and the okayness of that.

But I think most writers would agree that most anything can be pulled off if done properly hence again why we are on this site. Were moving towards mastery at whatever pace and so whatever is wrong shouldnt be ignored but examined and delineated and also Id argue shouldnt be called to task because that sounds so direly adjacent to censorship.
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  #46  
Old 01-29-2018, 09:00 AM
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Except there’s nothing in the expert to indicate that BP is somehow writing out of his league.

From what we can see here, the use of “nigger” might make perfect sense in the context of the entire story – the character, the timeframe, location etc.

There simply isn’t enough show that it doesn’t work or that the author isn’t up to it -- especially if the writing itself is any indication.

It’s not hard to tell when someone is really trying to offer “honest” constructive criticism and when they just have something to prove.
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  #47  
Old 01-29-2018, 11:14 AM
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I had no problem with him using the word nigger as it is understood. The writing is clear and concise, so what does that leave? Some might say it leaves nothing to crit, that the crit is without merit.

So why the crit? What is it you or maybe others think I am trying to prove? Is there something I see or know about the story content that leads me to the crit I offered?

There is and that assumption is as erroneous as it is expected.
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Old 01-29-2018, 11:54 AM
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If there’s something else you see or know about the “subject matter” (boxing perhaps?) then please enlighten us.

If there is something that he’s missing, and you were really interested in being “honest,” you would have said what it is instead of beating around the bush and saying he’s out of his league – which is just a cheap shot.

But yeah -- that’s another B.S. tactic -- try to keep things vague so you can easily back track or pretend you meant something else.

Exactly what you’re trying to prove is anyone’s guess -- but it obviously doesn’t have anything to do with offering any kind of constructive or "honest" critique.
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  #49  
Old 01-29-2018, 12:27 PM
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The first step to enlightenment is an open mind. Being accusatory and antagonistic as you are negates that first step. So what is there to share, especially with someone like you, that would be worth the trouble? Nothing. If you have all the answers as you would assume to why ask for more? You're just looking for the squabble because the wound hasn't healed and you still pick at it like a child. Tedious.
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaines View Post
The first step to enlightenment is an open mind. Being accusatory and antagonistic as you are negates that first step.
What a load coming from the guy who came into the thread just to tell someone he was out of his league for no good reason.

And from a guy who obviously drops insulting critiques just to retaliate for getting spanked in previous threads.

Pretty sad.

Yeah -- I think it's pretty clear who is out of his league.

P.S. You have sufficiently embarrassed yourself -- which seems to be a habit of yours. No further input from me is required -- but do go on if you feel the need.

Later.

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  #51  
Old 01-29-2018, 01:01 PM
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Sorry folks he had to leave for a doctors appointment. Twice a week he gets estrogen treatments after which he needs to take a long nap, otherwise, as you can tell, he gets really bitchy.

Word to the wise whatever you do don't make fun of Caitlin. He will go total Kardashian on you.

Don't worry if you don't get this post he will explain it to you. It's kind of his thing, like he thinks you might be stupid.
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Old 01-29-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
It is a cheap plot device, a set-up. There’s no dog house or dog named Ali, though. Do you watch boxing?

This little piece is just the first few sentences. A couple jabs, sizing up. The fight hasn’t started yet.

Appreciate the input.


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My bad I should have said Chappie instead of Blackie. Must have thinking of the cat too much.
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Old 01-29-2018, 04:56 PM
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Good job, Gaines!

There's nothing more relevant and hilarious than a Kardashian joke.

Har har har!
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  #54  
Old 01-29-2018, 05:03 PM
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BTW -- smart move deleting that post.

And no gay jokes!

I think this shows real progress.
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Old 01-29-2018, 05:52 PM
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Why dont we all take a breather and keep it cool no sense in derailing the thread to which I admit my part.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
BTW -- smart move deleting that post.

And no gay jokes!

I think this shows real progress.

Wait. What? No gay references? I was about to start .. so hows about that word "gay" What a 90's tween slur. Can't write a schoolyard bully story without using the big G-Al super ref.
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Old 01-30-2018, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
BTW -- smart move deleting that post.

And no gay jokes!

I think this shows real progress.
Why state the obvious. And btw you might want to take another look at whatever deleted post spot you're whining about. Idiot.
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  #58  
Old 01-30-2018, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaines View Post
Why state the obvious. And btw you might want to take another look at whatever deleted post spot you're whining about. Idiot.
Heh. Do I really need to spell it out?

Post #51 -- you deleted all the content of the post and wrote a new comment.

Now this may be hard for you to believe -- but even if you edit out all the content of a post on an internet forum, people who read it prior to editing will still remember it. I'm sorry, but that's just how it works.

So in the future, I recommend that you try a little harder not to say moronic things that you later regret posting. It will save us both some time.
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Old 01-30-2018, 04:18 AM
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Moronic is your forte. There is a difference between deleted and edited. So in the future get your shit right or have someone explain it to you. Post #50 for example.

Hey, when we going to get another song? Surely by now that Keith Urban guitar you ordered from QVC has arrived.
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Old 01-30-2018, 04:28 AM
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Wrong again.

I ordered the Brad Paisley guitar from the Home Shopping Network.
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