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Another 'Green on Blue' killing.

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  #1  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:41 AM
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Default Another 'Green on Blue' killing.


Our boys keep getting murdered by the Afghan recruits they are supposed to be training.

Why are we there?

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Old 01-09-2013, 01:23 PM
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who knows?
Not me.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:46 AM
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To keep the Taliban at bay.

I imagine we'll stay there as long as America wants us to. The current plans are for the majority of American troops to withdraw by the end of 2014. You might well see the Taliban run riot as soon as that happens. But some people think a withdrawal with actually see reduction in attacks.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:51 AM
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The Taliban are like cancer..unless you get the whole fucking thing in one go, expect to be under again and again. To answer the OP, well the political answer would be, in order to bring peace and stability blah blah blah...bollox bollox lies lies lies.
The real reason is probably so we can keep spending on arms and everything that goes with war to help prop up our flatlining economies. In part.
There are doubtless a dozen reasons all playing their own part. But I can't help but feel that unless..in fact, even IF we get every single Taliban..will that end the bloody strife. No.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:23 AM
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Gettin' every single member of the Taliban is an impossibility. The handover is supposedly almost done - about 90% of local areas are now being policed by Afghan forces, there's only a few areas where they are still 'not ready'.

Also, though there are economic and geopolitical reasons for actions in the middle-east - just having a presence near Iran, Russia and China is important to the West - a lot of men and women there are genuinely trying to bring peace and stability and deserve credit for it.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:14 AM
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We've spent the last few years only being able to push the Taliban back; they're weekend soldiers, the Taliban are the same blokes as the people in the villages; put the AKs away, and you can't tell who's who. You don't know who the 'baddies' are until they're shooting at you. They have no uniform, and use guerrilla tactics.
They know the area better than anyone, and there's nothing we can do to figure out who is a threat, until they're a threat. All we're doing is driving into roadside bombs that are only there because we're there. The bloody locals know where the bombs are; there are track marks around them because they avoid them, it's one of the main ways our bomb guys identify IEDs.
Our only choice is to cut our losses, hence: why are we there?
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:45 AM
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We can't save Afghanistan because it doesn't want to be saved. We can't wipe out the Taliban because the Afghans don't want them gone.

Either we get in to win, take over the government, and run it for them or we back out and let them do what they want. If they want to continue to live like animals, seal their borders and don't let them out to mingle among the decent people.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by wildchild View Post
because the Afghans don't want them gone.

.
A rather fatuous statement, you might want to rethink that one.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:46 AM
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Do you want it qualified?

Not all of them want them gone.

There is no overwhelming majority that wants them gone.

There is no consensus for removing them.

It's not unanimous.

Karzai is negotiating with them and is willing to work with them.

Nuff?
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:10 PM
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Really doesn't qualify your statement at all. But yes now we're getting closer to the truth.

Every terrorist organisation has support, otherwise they simply wouldn't exist. But remember the kinds of recruitment methods they use. Afghans have trapped between warlords, the Taliban and it has to be said foreign invaders for decades. Before the invasion there was a whole network of resistence and social activism from the people... albeit small, more a sort of community banding together, for example if a girl was out past her cerfew people would take her in and lie for her rather than see her beaten or worse. Hundreds of women have committed self-immolation, to escape their misery.

I could go on, basically I think that you must think that the whole nation or close to it is radicalised. simply not true. The Afghans have been oppressed by one power to the next and to think that they wouldn't want peace, a peace certainly not granted to them by the Taliban, is to think them all insane imo.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:13 PM
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Peace is relative. I have lived in islamic countries and have some inkling into the way many of them think. Don't try to overlay their thought patterns with a western way of thinking. It doesn't fit.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:25 PM
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Pretty much irrelevant. I've lived in Christian countries, doesn't mean I know how they all think.

I know what you're getting at, but I think you're going down the road of painting everyone in Islamic societies with the same brush.

But go for it, how do they think?
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:49 AM
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What should be understood about Afghanistan is that Karzai is not necessarily the voice of the people. He was picked by 'political figures', the 'Loya Jirga' of 2002 was a farce and I'll come to that in a sec. The elections since have been mired in widespread fraudulent activity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_...Election_fraud

The Loya Jirga gives us a decent idea of the general demographics in Afghanistan after the 'flight of the Taliban'. Delegates from all over the country were gathered together to draw up a new constitution. The place was teeming with warlords and fascists. Karzai had the right to pick 52 delegates and many of the warlords were picked by him. These guys are criminals by any standards, murderers ('responsible for tens of thousands of deaths of innocents') and human rights abusers who should have been rounded up and detained.

The younger and more progressive delegates knew this but were afraid to speak out, except one. And her name, or rather her alias is Malalai Joya. You can see the reaction to her thoughts here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLC1KBrwbck

That's a young female voice who is tired of being subjugated by old fascists, she says things that people think, but are too afraid to speak out about because the reaction from those in power is always hostile and violent. It's a shame that the invasion hasn't done more to empower people like her, and further more, a damn shame that a platform was given to so many ruthless killers.
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Last edited by JohnConstantine; 01-11-2013 at 12:52 AM..
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:56 PM
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I have NO idea why Britain would be in Afghanistan. I mean they did that before, right? And it ended in tears.
I would find it sad to think they're just there because Bush wanted them there, but maybe so. Good thing Johnson didn't want you in VietNam, huh?

One hilarious thing about Karzai, the first time I saw his picture I nearly pissed myself laughing. Why? Watch "The Man Who Would Be King" (Michael Caine, Sean Connery, Ben Kingsley) and you'll see.

Not a bad idea, anyway, it's a really, really great film. An overlooked classic.

You're going to love Karzai in the polo game.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Lin View Post
I would find it sad to think they're just there because Bush wanted them there,
Yeah, it's that sad!
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