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Tricks for Plot Development (help me)

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Old 04-17-2016, 10:43 AM
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Default Tricks for Plot Development (help me)


I've been struggling for a couple days to lay out an outline for my novel and am having difficulty coming up with scenes that keep the story moving along. I have very clear ideas of some of the major incidents that take place, but the actual connecting scenes, character development, and "meat" of the story is giving me quite a bit of grief.

Does anyone have any tricks or systems that work for them when they're coming up with ideas? Anything helps.

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Old 04-17-2016, 01:34 PM
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I don't plot. Thinking about writing and writing are so different to me that one can't see what the other is doing. I just start writing. I know this method isn't for everyone, but no matter how much I plan, once the writing begins, all organization and prep goes out the window.
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:43 PM
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Even if you ask someone who has finished a novel and managed to get it published, which currently seems like no one on this forum, anything they tell you may or may not apply to you.

Speaking as someone who hasn't done shit, but who has been trying to finish a novel for some time, I'd say you are going to have to arrive at your own process through trial and error, like everyone else. There are no tricks. Just keep writing until you figure it out. I don't think there's any other way. Good luck.

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Old 04-18-2016, 07:15 AM
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Yep, in agreement with Binx. You can only find your own way through trial and error.

I wrote a novel a while back thats hiding on my hard drive never to see the light of day lol. At first I had a rough idea of the general story and characters and tried just writing it down. It quickly turned into a rambling incoherent mess so I took some time to make rough outlines for each chapter as I went along, roughly following the storyline I had in my head. Nothing fancy, just some bullet points, a couple of sentences, lists etc. But it really helped me get the story clear on paper as well as in my head.

It took me four years to finish the thing. Would probably have taken a lot less if I'd outlined first. It was also my first attempt so I really was learning my process as I went. If I was to try it again, I'd definitely do a quick outline before starting to write. So yeah, it all comes down to figuring out what works for the individual which really only comes with practice and experience.
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Old 04-18-2016, 02:40 PM
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I don't think it's a trick but I very, no always, use subplots to push the story. it's easy to put things in that tell the reader where your MC is without really telling them, i.e. The blind beggar sat in squalor holding out his ten cup asking for alms. (your M C) dropped a coin in the cup and asked, "Where is Balkes place ?"

"I would not tell you sir, for it is a dangerous place and if you came to harm; I would count myself to blame."

another coin dropped into the cup and the beggar rattles it again.

MC "no more - now tell me."

"I sit at it's door sir, it would be best if you left your money with me for they're thief's inside."

"I think there is thief out side too."


now how much did I just tell the reader about where the MC is - the blind beggar could turn up later in the story as not quite so blind.

as I recall you're writing about dragons, but the idea is the same, if you expand your world with disposable characters then it is much easier to push the story along.

hope that helped, that's the way I do it.



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Old 05-23-2016, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kathleen-may View Post
I've been struggling for a couple days to lay out an outline for my novel and am having difficulty coming up with scenes that keep the story moving along. I have very clear ideas of some of the major incidents that take place, but the actual connecting scenes, character development, and "meat" of the story is giving me quite a bit of grief.

Does anyone have any tricks or systems that work for them when they're coming up with ideas? Anything helps.
A central theme.

Represented by a character, who goes on a journey and changes.

The plot is provoking that change.

The basic structure I use is http://www.kalbashir.com/Oscars-2016...-Nominees.html
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Old 05-28-2016, 04:42 AM
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You may need to simply start writing. I see writing a story like going on a road trip. When I do a drive across the country I know which cities I will stop in and at least one site or activity I will see. Everything else I do along the way happens on the fly.
The same goes for my writing. I need to know where my characters are starting, where they will end up and some specific things they will do during the trip. I like to know the major events of my story, but the times between or what happens while the characters go from one location to another are written in the moment. When I begin writing a chapter I know one or two main events that will take place. Precisely how or when they occur happens on its own as the story develops.
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Old 05-28-2016, 10:46 AM
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Many authors say that they let the characters and plot take on a life of their own, so that it then flows, often in directions unexpected by the author. One trick that works for some, but not for all, is to imagine your book as a film, and "watch" the film when you are relaxed, not trying to force it.
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:49 AM
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Hi kathleen.

I've been writing a long time (too long) and usually I outline. But when I'm going for a rough draft I find it too frustrating when the content wants to go according to plan. So I try and relax and see where it goes. This sometimes allows me be surprised and the story gets better. Sometimes it destroys the story and has to be deleted.

The buddha said: it's okay to have a plan just don't plan the outcome.

Since the major points have been planned, why not write them? The transitional stuff will take care of its self.

Don't fall into the trap of over planning. That's really just putting off the writing. Once you begin writing all will be revealed. Have faith in yourself and begin the writing. Good luck with your project.

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Old 06-20-2016, 06:46 AM
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TBH I am just writing whatever comes into my head. When I first started writing my novel I remember typing away furiously because stuff just kept coming into my head. I've got back to it a few years later which I never thought would happen. I lost motivation for a few weeks there but am back to it.

I don't know where my plot is going yet, I have a few ideas but haven't tied them together.
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Old 06-20-2016, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
TBH I am just writing whatever comes into my head. When I first started writing my novel I remember typing away furiously because stuff just kept coming into my head. I've got back to it a few years later which I never thought would happen. I lost motivation for a few weeks there but am back to it.

I don't know where my plot is going yet, I have a few ideas but haven't tied them together.
Howdy Mario.

Imagine yourself wanting to get to a location hundred of miles from where you are. If you don't get a map showing the ways to get there you may never get there and spend all your time meandering and lost.

If you want to create a finished story (short story or novel) you'll never succeed with out a plan because every time you try to write you'll be lost. Each writing session will be different of each other. If you don't have a plan you have no way to get to where ever you want to want to go.

Those writers who hate planning are just masterbating their language skills, which is okay, but won't won't result in a meaning full finished event. These writers are suffering from too much hubris if they think can create anything worth reading by whim. When reading non directional writing I always want to scream: "What's the point? Where's the story? Excellent language skills but it doesn't go anywhere!"

If you have a piece of directionless writing that triggers energy in you then use it was a jumping off place to tell a story. The best reading comes from writers who took the time to truly understand their story. And once you have a story planned you can then tell it.

Maybe you could expand your writing exercises with characters, plot, theme, etc., all the elements of good storytelling. At that point you have a map leading to where you want to go. Only then should you undertake the terrible commitment to actually write it.

Good luck. wrc
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wrc View Post
If you want to create a finished story (short story or novel) you'll never succeed with out a plan because every time you try to write you'll be lost.
Elmore Leonard, Dean Koontz, Lee Child, Harlan Coben, Jodi Picoult are just a few of the authors that come to mind who don't use a plan.

And there are no doubt many more successful, published authors who don't use them either.

So why are you telling people in no uncertain terms they shouldn't write without a plan?

Based on what?

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Old 06-20-2016, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Binx B View Post
Elmore Leonard, Dean Koontz, Lee Child, Harlan Coben, Jodi Picoult are just a few of the authors that come to mind who don't use a plan.

And there are no doubt many more successful, published authors who don't use them either.

So why are you telling people in no uncertain terms they shouldn't write without a plan?

Based on what?
Hey Binx. Nice to hear from you. You asked:

(So why are you telling people in no uncertain terms they shouldn't write without a plan?)

Because I know it to be true. It's the hallmark of a professional writer. Even those who claim they work without a plan have a plan. They might not type it out but it's there in their mind. If you actually disagree with this maybe you'll explain how there can be coherence without a plan. I respect you and your work but I can't imagine it was done without a plan.

Further more, I think it is a disservice to the beginning writer to continue the myth that successful writing can be done without a plan. "Just write whatever pops into your mind and you'll be successful." Such bullshit!

Take care and good luck. wrc
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wrc View Post
Because I know it to be true. It's the hallmark of a professional writer. Even those who claim they work without a plan have a plan.
And you know this how? You have personal knowledge of the working methods of all the writers who say they work without a plan?

You're actually discounting what highly successful authors say about their own working process — as if they are lying or deluded and not even aware of how they go about writing books that actually sell?

Sounds like a whole lot of guesswork to me — to put it nicely.

Originally Posted by wrc View Post
I respect you and your work but I can't imagine it was done without a plan.
Start imagining, because I usually start with characters and a place in mind and I just start writing. The story evolves from there. Sometimes I think ahead and work things out in a vague way, or even have an ending in mind, but more often I don't. And even if I do, I often surprise myself and take a different turn entirely. And I know many writers who work the same way.

Originally Posted by wrc View Post
Further more, I think it is a disservice to the beginning writer to continue the myth that successful writing can be done without a plan. "Just write whatever pops into your mind and you'll be successful." Such bullshit!
I've never heard anyone say that if you just write whatever pops into your mind you'll be successful. That indeed would be bullshit.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Obviously, you still need to have the skill to craft a good story and to recognize what is working and what isn't as you go along. And of course, nothing's set in stone, is it? That's what editing and rewrites are for. Something almost everyone does, plan or no.

It just takes a certain kind of talent and confidence that perhaps you don't have. And I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't use a plan. I'm saying whatever works. I've tried it both ways, and I prefer writing without one.

So you were wrong about how I write. You may want to at least entertain the idea that you might be wrong about all the other writers who "claim" they can write without a plan.

But I doubt you will. Not that it matters anyway. Writers with talent will arrive at their own working method without any help from you or me.

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Old 06-21-2016, 11:04 AM
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Hi Binx.

You suggested that those with writing talent donít have to prethink a story with a plan. Iím not sure what you mean by Ďtalentí. In any case, hereís my take on how successful writers, who claim they never preplan, actually mentally plan their work. They just donít type it up.

Have you ever wondered where thoughts come from? I have. So I researched it. Hereís what I learned.

Human brains generates human minds. The conscious awareness of thinking receives thoughts from the subconscious. The subconscious is fascinating. There is where memory lives. There is also where skills learned, experiences, beliefs, etc. are stored. For ease of this discussion Iím going use Mind One (M1) for the conscious mind and Mind Two (M2) for the subconscious.

M1 is where we are aware of our thinking. Itís like sitting in the body witnessing what happens to us. Itís were sense of self develops. M1 is not aware of M2. M2 is full of information and memory of all experiences. All the information and experiences about genres, story elements (plot, character, dramatic tension, yada, yadaÖ) including the ability to plan and control complex stories resides

The more complex the story the more control is needed to avoid getting lost. If M2 has been trained and educated well it automatically sends thoughts relevant to the story. Including a plan on how to best tell the story. Without these thoughts the story wonít make sense.

When someone tells me they never plan their writing I assume they donít know where there thoughts come from. You imply thereís something called Ďtalentí involved. Thatís very mysterious. The next time you run into some Ďtalentí bottle it so you can prove it exists. Maybe by talent you mean all the experiences and learning, which leads to good storytelling. Prethinking (planning) is required by all storytellers if they want reader satisfaction. Without Prethinking the result is incoherence.

Wiki is a great resource for writers at all levels of ability. And the more knowledge a writer has about his mind the better off theyíll be in becoming a pro storyteller. Itís also a good place to learn about the elements of storytelling.

For the beginning writer they have to learn the craft of writing before they can generate the thoughts for successful storytelling. What Iím suggesting does not take away the surprises and joy when suddenly the writing takes off in a hot burst creativity. Prethinking does not kill creativity but enhances it. And actually typing out the Prethinking (plan) creates a record for future reference.

So, what thinks thee? wrc
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Old 06-21-2016, 12:08 PM
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I have no doubt that my stories are informed by my subconscious when I write without a plan. Most of our thinking and decision making is, as much as people would like to believe otherwise. That is not news to me. (Sorry to spoil your little "gotcha.")

But that's not the same as consciously planning a story before you write, either on paper or in your head.

So of course, BOTH a story written on the fly and any plan or outline you might come up with ahead of time are informed by subconscious thought. But they represent two different working methods. Not really sure why you're confused about this. That is, if you've looked into this to the extent you've indicated.

I've approached writing fiction both ways. And I outline all the writing I do for work, either mentally or on paper. So I am fully aware of the difference.

And I don't think there's anything mysterious about talent, at least in this context or how I'm using it. And I don't believe you're born with it.

So yes, I'm simply talking about a skill or the ability to do something well gained by learning or experience, but often in ways that aren't clearly identifiable. I think a lot of what we often call talent is formed in early childhood based on many different influences — so it only seems innate.

I suspect that because you don't or can't start with a character or setting and go from there without planning the story, you really don't understand how other writers can do it and not get lost or stuck or wind up with "incoherence."

For one reason or another, you don't possess that ability (or talent, if you will) or you haven't really tried, so you're convinced that other writers can't do it either. Seems rather narrow minded and presumptious to me. You are also assuming that the successful writers mentioned haven't given this the same amount of thought you have. Does that seem even a little improbable to you?

Of course there is also the very real possibility they've landed on a method that works and they don't give a shit what anyone has to say about it, least of all a couple of amateurs on a writing forum.

I know in my case it's perfectly possible to write without a plan, and you've read the results. So I have good reason to believe that other writers who say they can write without consciously planning can do the same.

In the end, when it comes to writing a novel or story, the only thing that is absolutely necessary is actually, you know, writing it. How you get there is entirely up to you.

Last edited by Binx B; 06-22-2016 at 05:17 AM..
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:44 PM
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Hi Binx.

This post is off the topic of planning fiction. It seems, after having had many discussions with you on many topics that you always have a section where you personalize your comments. And say something negative about me. It seems to me that you cross the line because the comments are not about the topic but about my inability to discuss it.

Sometimes I do play 'gotcha' but not often. I was writing on this topic because I wanted to get my point of view across, not to 'get' you.

And in your same post you implied I'm an inferior writer because I plan my stories. Doing this moves from a discussion into an aggressive attack mode.

Why is this? I have a lot of respect for you work and your thinking. But the respect ebbs away when you do it.

Our last discussion on advertising is a case in point. You basically said I wasn't qualified to have an opinion because I didn't have as much personal experience as you to even have an opinion. I realized then that you're more interested in feeling good about yourself by making others feel bad about themselves. I find this very distasteful.

I enjoy our discussions. I do not enjoy your negativity aimed at me.

wrc
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Old 06-24-2016, 06:21 AM
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I remember our discussion about advertising. I'm paraphrasing, but I said you were making a lot of the assumptions people make when they don't work in advertising and can see what goes on behind the scenes day-to-day.

You took that to mean I was saying you weren't qualified to discuss the topic. Of course, I thought no such thing and I went out of my way to tell you so. For some reason, you didn't even acknowledge my clarification.

Here I said that I suspect because you can't write without a plan, you're assuming other people can't either, which is a pretty logical assumption based on everything you've said.

You've taken that to mean I think you're an "inferior writer."

Of course I didn't say or remotely imply any such thing. Many brilliant authors find it necessary to write detailed plans.

Whether or not you plan or any thoughts or beliefs you have about planing have absolutely no bearing on your skill as a writer. It's the outcome that matters, not the process. That's pretty much the point I've been making all along.

So unfortunately, I think you just don't like it when I disagree with you and I can back it up with a logical argument or observation. You take it personally and feel like you're being attacked. Is it narrow minded or presumptuous to assume that people will lapse into incoherence if they don't use a plan? I certainly think so. And I can see how you might be insulted by that. But that doesn't make it any less true.

Now, you clearly told me that my ideas about planning were wrong, and that I really do plan, but I just don't know it, and that you assumed I didn't even know where my thoughts came from. I'm sorry, but that's rather negative.

In that respect, how are my comments different than yours? I think if you really made the effort to look objectively at what you've said, you'd see there isn't really any difference.

My arguments are pretty straightforward, even if I don't go out of my way to couch things. I make the assumption that people have the temperament to handle a pointed discussion and not take disagreements personally. Sometimes I'm wrong.

I also realize that there are people who don't like to feel they are wrong and who take any kind of contradiction as aggression or some kind of put down. Unfortunately, it appears you are one of those people. The kind who can dish it out, but can't take it.

The thing is, I can't control how you feel when you read my comments. Just because you feel bad when I tell you I think you're wrong about something doesn't mean I'm trying to make you feel bad or feel better about myself. That's all on you.

Now, like I said, last time I made the effort to say I was sorry if I hurt your feelings, to clarify the comments that you felt were insulting and to point out the ways in which we agreed.

There was no acknowledgement on your part, so I'm not going to go out of my way to do it again. Nor will I bother to engage you in the future—that is if you're going to make it all about feeling insulted and not stick to the topic. Unfortunately, I don't have much reason to be optimistic—and I suspect you'll be further insulted by this post.

Like you always say, oh well.

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Old 06-24-2016, 07:16 AM
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Hi Binx.
Bye bye to you.
wrc
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Old 06-24-2016, 07:33 AM
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That's no suprise.

And I won't bother commenting on your posts, that is unless you are doling out just plain bad advice to "new writers" along the lines of "you must plan your writing."

It's not likely that it will derail anyone with ability, but you never know.

Anyway, writing sites are funny. They're the only place I can think of where people tell you absolutely how you must do something when they haven't even managed to do it themselves.

Ciao!

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Old 06-24-2016, 01:56 PM
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Old 06-26-2016, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wrc View Post
Howdy Mario.

Imagine yourself wanting to get to a location hundred of miles from where you are. If you don't get a map showing the ways to get there you may never get there and spend all your time meandering and lost.

If you want to create a finished story (short story or novel) you'll never succeed with out a plan because every time you try to write you'll be lost. Each writing session will be different of each other. If you don't have a plan you have no way to get to where ever you want to want to go.

Those writers who hate planning are just masterbating their language skills, which is okay, but won't won't result in a meaning full finished event. These writers are suffering from too much hubris if they think can create anything worth reading by whim. When reading non directional writing I always want to scream: "What's the point? Where's the story? Excellent language skills but it doesn't go anywhere!"

If you have a piece of directionless writing that triggers energy in you then use it was a jumping off place to tell a story. The best reading comes from writers who took the time to truly understand their story. And once you have a story planned you can then tell it.

Maybe you could expand your writing exercises with characters, plot, theme, etc., all the elements of good storytelling. At that point you have a map leading to where you want to go. Only then should you undertake the terrible commitment to actually write it.

Good luck. wrc
Sorry to say, wrc, but this is all absolute rubbish.

I have an acquaintance who writes rather complex military-themed thrillers. One of his novels has been traditionally published and he has had some success with it. He takes notes as he goes along for the sake of continuity, but he doesn't commence with anything more than characters and a broad concept.

From everything I have read and from discussions with other writers and from my own experience, I can say with some confidence that he is not an exception. There are many well-known authors who have gone on record to say they don't plan either.

There is much disagreement among writers who plan and those who don't, but there shouldn't be. It's quite simply something one needs to work out for himself, as has been said, by trial and error.

Perhaps it would be better if you relayed what process has worked best for you and how you arrived at it without disparaging other methods. I'm sure that you mean well, but you're not doing anyone a favor by dispensing this kind of advice.

Originally Posted by Binx B View Post
Anyway, writing sites are funny. They're the only place I can think of where people tell you absolutely how you must do something when they haven't even managed to do it themselves.
Quite true.

But here's the rub. I don't believe even a best selling author can tell another writer how to go about writing a novel. When it comes to planning or not planning, no approach is the right one. Each method just suits a different type of writer.
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Old 06-30-2016, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kathleen-may View Post
I've been struggling for a couple days to lay out an outline for my novel and am having difficulty coming up with scenes that keep the story moving along. I have very clear ideas of some of the major incidents that take place, but the actual connecting scenes, character development, and "meat" of the story is giving me quite a bit of grief.

Does anyone have any tricks or systems that work for them when they're coming up with ideas? Anything helps.

Kathleen, I start with the ending and wind the film backwards. Not every scene makes the cut, but they help to steer the story even so.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:14 AM
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I'm getting ready to publish my fourth novel. I learned a lot from my first one and the criticism it received. There are a lot of formulas for writing and developing plots. I'd suggest looking into the Marshall Plan. Set up an outline with scene and character development, plot twists, narrowing of options or plot lines, elimination of characters, a showdown and wrap-up section. Then go under each topic and fill in a short synopsis. Keep it on hand to review as you write and your story will begin to fall into place.
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Old 07-14-2016, 08:35 AM
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Wrc,

Kerouac certainly wrote with a plan in mind. It was to take Benzedrine and stay up for a week straight and see where his drug addled and sleep deprived mind took him. The result was 'on the road.' I'm sorry to say, but your posts couldn't be anymore off the mark. I mean the beats alone disprove your notion that all professional writers write with a plan in place. Have you never heard of surrealism? Automated writing? Dadaism?

As I said, way off the mark. Which is okay, but you shouldn't go around telling people they must write with a plan if they want to have any hope at getting published, when such a statement is just demonstrably false.
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Old 07-14-2016, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by copenhagen_dipz View Post
Wrc,

Kerouac certainly wrote with a plan in mind. It was to take Benzedrine and stay up for a week straight and see where his drug-addled and sleep deprived mind took him. The result was 'on the road.' I'm sorry to say, but your posts couldn't be any more off the mark. I mean the beats alone disprove your notion that all professional writers write with a plan in place. Have you never heard of surrealism? Automated writing? Dadaism?

As I said, way off the mark. Which is okay, but you shouldn't go around telling people they must write with a plan if they want to have any hope getting published, when such a statement is just demonstrably false.
Howdy copenhagen.

I've already been through a meat grinder on this topic with another WB member and it's boring to restate what I already said. If you haven't viewed my POV it's here in this thread.

Let me try this another way. If a writer doesn't know what he's writing how will he be understood when read. Knowing the story to be told is a plan. Knowing that's there's a desire to explore an invented character functions as a plan. Written down or not. Without a plan there will be no reader comprehension. They will be as lost as the writer when he told the story.

You mentioned On the Road. You should have mentioned that K. bought a roll of newsprint and had it cut to fit his typewriter so he wouldn't rewrite or have to feed paper. Anyway, that's what they claimed when published, implying that he wrote it without changes and it was published without one edit. Personally, I call this publishing bullshit to hype sales. Not only did he have a plan but he followed it.

Now, surrealism. The only time you find it today is in dreams, drug-induced hallucinations, or insane characters. I tried my hand at surrealism and what I realized was that readers, because they use language, expect the built-in logic of the language. They know when things don't make sense. They innately understand cause and effect. Naked Lunch is often cited as surrealistic, ie, the typewriter becomes a fearful being and other events. Naked Lunch had moments of surrealism but it was told with reference to the reality we all share. I suggest that the writer was in a Heroin-induced state of nonreality. But when a junkie writes they still refer to the reality as their jumping off point. They always know where the next fix comes from. I would say they tapped into their subconsciousness to get their thoughts and from there were guided in good storytelling techniques. That is to say, a plan was presented in the thought process.

Dadaism is an art style. We're talking about words here. Seeing something which doesn't make sense may seem acceptable. But when we read, reading something which doesn't make sense and is gibberish gets thrown against the wall.

I don't mind having a discussion with you on this topic and look forward to it.

I've spent years teaching writing. And I know how vulnerable the beginning writer can be. I feel it's a real disservice to them to tell them they don't need to plan the work if they desire to be taken seriously. For the advanced writer who already learned storytelling (and, educated the subconscious) the planning will be there inside the thoughts of the telling.

Have a nice thinking day.

wrc
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Last edited by wrc; 07-14-2016 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 07-14-2016, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon_Doh View Post
I'm getting ready to publish my fourth novel. I learned a lot from my first one and the criticism it received. There are a lot of formulas for writing and developing plots. I'd suggest looking into the Marshall Plan. Set up an outline with scene and character development, plot twists, narrowing of options or plot lines, elimination of characters, a showdown and wrap-up section. Then go under each topic and fill in a short synopsis. Keep it on hand to review as you write and your story will begin to fall into place.
Howdy.

I'm not familiar with the Marshall Plan, but I taught myself to do many of things you suggest. I also interview my characters before writing them to make them real in my mind.

Thanks for your post. wrc
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Old 07-14-2016, 03:09 PM
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Kerouac isn't a very good example. A lot of what he wrote was based on direct experience. Plus, he did cultivate the myth that he wrote "On the Road" in three weeks. There's lots of evidence that he wrote several drafts and rewrites over a period of time.

But it's not important. Because lots of writers work without a plan. I've done it myself and I know published authors who have done it too.

To say you can't write without a plan, based on nothing but your own inability to do so, is like someone telling John Coltrane, I know you SAY you improvise, but you CAN'T possibly be making that up as you go along...

But here's the thing. It doesn't matter. Writers with any kind of talent or ability will recognize bullshit advice when they see it. Especially if they consider the source and the rational. So no harm done.
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Old 07-14-2016, 03:20 PM
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Hello again.

After writing the last post I went online for the Marshall Writing Plan. I was impressed! It did many things which I hadn't done, and had many features, like keeping track of info needed in the writing without searching the draft for what was written. Did she have brown or blue eyes?

i'm thinking of taking on one more long story and if I do I'll buy it to try. $127 but with a trial period to try it out. It sure looks good.

wrc
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Last edited by wrc; 07-14-2016 at 03:23 PM..
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Old 07-21-2016, 04:51 AM
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I agree with Bryan Pattrick
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