WritersBeat.com
 

Go Back   WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table

The Intellectual Table Discussions on political topics, social issues, current affairs, etc.


A Rant: Letís Bury God and Grow Up

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-17-2016, 11:06 AM
wrc (Offline)
Scribbling Master
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 997
Thanks: 0
Thanks 230
Default A Rant: Letís Bury God and Grow Up


A Rant: Let’s Bury God and Grow Up

I try not to write Rants or share them because they usually only generate more Rants. But when irritation morphs into anger that morphs into rage the only way I can find peace of mind is to share what’s pissing me off.

So this is my Rant. If you don’t want to get pissed off don’t read it.

The history of life on earth has evolved for billions of years into a vast number of species, some now extinct and some living today, along with the human species that evolved a large brain. That brain expanded neural connections to such an extent that it created consciousness. We became aware of ourselves and began to accumulate facts about reality.

Have you ever wondered where your thoughts come from? Where did religious thoughts come from? Where did scientific thoughts come from?

Both science and religion were born from the neural connections of our brains. Those same connections also created the means to commit species suicide with the scientific discovery of how to burn atoms. There are more than enough nuclear missiles now to render the planet into a burnt out shell with no life to be found. Using one could cause a domino use of all. The result wouldn’t just be species suicide, it would also murder all life on our tiny planet.

It doesn’t matter who pushes the Red Button first. The life and death question is, will someone push it? Given the insanity now spreading on the planet. it seems likely.

Our she species now segregated into two mindsets of rationality and non-rationality. The rational mindset is outnumbered by the non-rational mindset by a million to one.

Religion leads the charge to oblivion. And why not? Believers have been promised an afterlife so who cares about this one? If they think their God will do what’s best for the species, good luck on that.

It’s time to grow up. Let’s, all of us, leave the ideas of childhood behind, grow up and demand rational leadership.

I’m calling on all people to hold a funeral for God. We have outgrown the myths of childhood and it’s time to put away the toys. God has been dead for years, but the rotting corpse now needs burying. The stink of decomposition is tainting all the minds on the planet.

There. That’s my rant and I feel better having voiced it. I hope all of you are now as pissed off as I am. Thanks for reading my rant.

wrc

__________________

You're not dead 'til you're dead and when you are you won't know it. So, keep on writing and having fun.

Last edited by wrc; 08-17-2016 at 11:12 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-17-2016, 11:28 AM
flyingtart's Avatar
flyingtart (Offline)
Scribbling Master
Official Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 917
Thanks: 144
Thanks 183
Default

God just texted to say She's not impressed.
__________________
Awaiting the return of the Dogís Arse Messiah.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-17-2016, 11:33 AM
Myers (Offline)
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,224
Thanks: 382
Thanks 403
Default

I don't think anyone else will be impressed either.

If you want to reach people, this kind of condescending tone and melodramatic presentation isn't going to cut it.

So what's the purpose?

I think it's about preaching to the choir, fishing for approval and venting for the sake of it. In other words, self-gratification.

If it makes you feel better, fine. Otherwise, it's utterly pointless.

Last edited by Myers; 08-17-2016 at 11:44 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-17-2016, 12:07 PM
max crash's Avatar
max crash (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: The Keep, just beyond the orbit of mars
Posts: 2,239
Thanks: 147
Thanks 404
Default

WRC - I agree, 95 percent

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I don't think anyone else will be impressed either.

If you want to reach people, this kind of condescending tone and melodramatic presentation isn't going to cut it.

this I disagree with - current statistics show that about 40 percent of the people will respond favorably to condescending tone and melodramatic presentation, check out the Donald trump campaign for president.

So what's the purpose?

I think it's about preaching to the choir, fishing for approval and venting for the sake of it. In other words, self-gratification.

If it makes you feel better, fine. Otherwise, it's utterly pointless.
and I believe everyone should do some pointless and self gratifying at least once a day.

and just think where we would be if the churches had to live up to the same tax burdens the rest of us do.


max


THE CONCEPT OF GOD IS HOLDING MAN BACK.
__________________
if you're writing over your readers head - tum etiam, ut graece scribens --- the secret of success changes;the truth of failure remains constant; if you try to please everyone you will fail.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-17-2016, 12:09 PM
max crash's Avatar
max crash (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: The Keep, just beyond the orbit of mars
Posts: 2,239
Thanks: 147
Thanks 404
Default

Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
God just texted to say She's not impressed.

I also believe the 'rant' could have been much more 'ranty' - it seemed censored somehow.
__________________
if you're writing over your readers head - tum etiam, ut graece scribens --- the secret of success changes;the truth of failure remains constant; if you try to please everyone you will fail.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-17-2016, 12:17 PM
Myers (Offline)
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,224
Thanks: 382
Thanks 403
Default

Originally Posted by max crash View Post
this I disagree with - current statistics show that about 40 percent of the people will respond favorably to condescending tone and melodramatic presentation, check out the Donald trump campaign for president.
Max, I hope you're joking. Otherwise, do I really need to point out that these people were already predisposed to agree with Trump? How many times did you hear the phrase, "He says what we're all thinking." That's just pandering.

wrc is trying to tell people who believe in god they should bury him and grow up. Insulting people is not a very effective form of persuasion.

Originally Posted by max crash View Post
and I believe everyone should do some pointless and self gratifying at least once a day.
That's fine. I just don't think you need to do it in front of everybody else.

Originally Posted by max crash View Post
and just think where we would be if the churches had to live up to the same tax burdens the rest of us do.
Yes. It's a scam. Although I'm not really sure "where we would be." More money in the coffers that could be squandered?

Cheers.

Last edited by Myers; 08-17-2016 at 12:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-17-2016, 01:49 PM
Myers (Offline)
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,224
Thanks: 382
Thanks 403
Default

So even though the OP isn't a presentation of a debate topic, maybe we could debate the value of internet "rants."

I say there isn't much. Generally, the people who post rants on forums and social media etc. aren't interested in debate or entertaining opposing views or any kind of discussion. They just want people to come along and say, "Hell yeah!"

So it's about the buzz that come from self-righteous indignation and the affirmation from people who agree with you.

There was a time when opinion had to go through some vetting process, like letters to the editor or other kinds of published editorials. But no more! Basically, anyone who can two-finger type into a box and hit a submit button can put his rant out there for some kind of public consumption.

Most of them are just about parroting things we've all heard umpteen times in one form or another. Of course, I'm not immune. I'm doing it right now!

But let's look at the OP...

Currently, I believe there's only one faction of a religion interested in killing people who don't agree with them. I'm not diminishing that in any way. I believe it's a legitimate threat.

On the other hand, are they going to respond to some impassioned plea to forget about god and just get along? Of course not.

I think someone who claims to be a rational thinker would know such an entreatment is going to fall on deaf ears.

So again, what's the point?

Sorry, but I don' think there's much of one.

OK, talk amongst yourselves.

Last edited by Myers; 08-17-2016 at 02:17 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-17-2016, 02:33 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,034
Thanks: 1,330
Thanks 380
Default

Originally Posted by wrc View Post
A Rant: Letís Bury God and Grow Up

I try not to write Rants or share them because they usually only generate more Rants. But when irritation morphs into anger that morphs into rage the only way I can find peace of mind is to share whatís pissing me off.

So this is my Rant. If you donít want to get pissed off donít read it.

The history of life on earth has evolved for billions of years into a vast number of species, some now extinct and some living today, along with the human species that evolved a large brain. That brain expanded neural connections to such an extent that it created consciousness. We became aware of ourselves and began to accumulate facts about reality.

Have you ever wondered where your thoughts come from? Where did religious thoughts come from? Where did scientific thoughts come from?

Both science and religion were born from the neural connections of our brains. Those same connections also created the means to commit species suicide with the scientific discovery of how to burn atoms. There are more than enough nuclear missiles now to render the planet into a burnt out shell with no life to be found. Using one could cause a domino use of all. The result wouldnít just be species suicide, it would also murder all life on our tiny planet.

It doesnít matter who pushes the Red Button first. The life and death question is, will someone push it? Given the insanity now spreading on the planet. it seems likely.

Our she species now segregated into two mindsets of rationality and non-rationality. The rational mindset is outnumbered by the non-rational mindset by a million to one.

Religion leads the charge to oblivion. And why not? Believers have been promised an afterlife so who cares about this one? If they think their God will do whatís best for the species, good luck on that.

Itís time to grow up. Letís, all of us, leave the ideas of childhood behind, grow up and demand rational leadership.

Iím calling on all people to hold a funeral for God. We have outgrown the myths of childhood and itís time to put away the toys. God has been dead for years, but the rotting corpse now needs burying. The stink of decomposition is tainting all the minds on the planet.

There. Thatís my rant and I feel better having voiced it. I hope all of you are now as pissed off as I am. Thanks for reading my rant.

wrc
I was always confused as to why Dawkins wrote the God delusion, God has nothing to do with "it". "It" is the problems that are associated with organised religion. The same problem would exist if God didnt exist which I take it you believe to be true. Yet the same "it" can also be seen in non-God activities such as Scientology, Political ideology, Social ideology, Ethnic & cultural ideology etc

IMO I strongly believe that if God and even religion disappeared overnight the net effect on the world w.r.t. "it" will be zero, the world will be exactly the same yet everyone will be follwing a different sport and killing other people for not barracking for the same team.

That is, what are the root causes?

IMO there are several mostly dependent causes, group mentality, hierarchical structure, greed (for power and/or money), bored young males, undervalued people, mass media/propaganda etc etc
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PickleBottom For This Useful Post:
Myers (08-17-2016)
  #9  
Old 08-17-2016, 09:19 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,023
Thanks: 408
Thanks 1,116
Default

Yeah, getting rid of religion would not stop humans from being nasty, smart, monkeys. I was reading an article a couple of months ago about how intelligence (like ours) was evolutionarily devastating to a species. We're probably doomed.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-17-2016, 10:16 PM
flyingtart's Avatar
flyingtart (Offline)
Scribbling Master
Official Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 917
Thanks: 144
Thanks 183
Default

The funny thing about Dorkins is he's every bit as trapped in his own dogma as any religious zealot.
__________________
Awaiting the return of the Dogís Arse Messiah.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-18-2016, 06:54 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,679
Thanks: 32
Thanks 185
Default

Since when did an air-tight mind become synonymous with maturity? That strategy has more in common with a spoiled child throwing a tantrum when not getting his or her way.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-18-2016, 08:41 AM
NuNu (Offline)
Profusive Denizen
Official Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 270
Thanks: 66
Thanks 62
Default

The stance that most atheists take is that Religion is more harmful than it is good.
-It takes billions of dollars out of the economy, in the form of mega-churches, un-taxed
-It stunt minds from formulating their own spirituality and growth by giving them one doctrine to believe in.
-The Crusades
-Indulgences

But, there is a lot of good that churches do. Missionaries do Good work educating and feeding people in third world countries, Churches strengthen communities, offering positive social interactions.
And they do these good things in the name of their God...

So, I don't know how the balance works out.

I believe in God, but I don't think she is an old white man with a white beard sitting on a thrown and monitoring human activity like Zeus.
(And yes, is God were to be a humanoid entity, it would most likely be a Female, because Females have the womb to create)
But I don't think of God is a humanoid being.
God is an intelligence, an entity that got bored of Nirvana and decided to play a game by splitting herself into an infinite number of parts in order to see which ones find out that it's all one. Or a little girl who was messing around with ingredients in the Soul Kitchen, added too much of something and caused a great explosion, creating the universe as we know it today.

I do agree. That we should bury the image of a Zeus like God, who monitors humans and judges them. I think that's the image you are referring too anyway, because that is your image of "God". In which case you are correct.
But as a mass, it is very silly to think that people will ever just bury the idea of God.
__________________
" Life's Permanent Temptation is to Confuse Dreams with Reality. Life's Permanent Defeat is to Surrender to Reality." ---Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-18-2016, 11:58 AM
wrc (Offline)
Scribbling Master
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 997
Thanks: 0
Thanks 230
Default

Hi brianpatrick. Long time no talked to. It sounds like you'll well and still doing good thinking, as when you said getting rid of religion will change nothing since we'll still be killing each other in a greed feed. (my take on you said, not your words.)

I agree with you. And after reading your post, thinking about it, I realized how your idea is substantiated by the facts of the current state of group consciousness.

For the last couple of years, I've lived the life of a crazed ping ball on speed flying back and forth between hope and dispair. Lately, I spend more time in despair and it takes an incredible effort to even roll toward hope, much less fly.

In my current state of mind, the human species is doomed. I think many people also think this.

I often obsess trying to figure out the cause of our demise. It's a race of many possible causes.

I think the contenders are: global warming; nuclear suicide; a deadly virus; a mass migration to a better afterlife; the disappearance of everything into the last Black Hole (I wonder if they'll be another point of singularity leading to another Big Band?).

Some ends will be quick and some slow. But end it will.

Hell's belles! I need to move away from despair. I thnk I'll write a story today. Something light and frothy. wrc
__________________

You're not dead 'til you're dead and when you are you won't know it. So, keep on writing and having fun.

Last edited by wrc; 08-18-2016 at 12:01 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-18-2016, 01:33 PM
Myers (Offline)
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,224
Thanks: 382
Thanks 403
Default

Nothing against brianpatrick, but in the bazillion threads about religion on the internet, it's mandatory that someone has to point out it's about human nature, not religion. But I guess somebody had to say it!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-18-2016, 02:07 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,034
Thanks: 1,330
Thanks 380
Default

Originally Posted by wrc View Post
Hi brianpatrick. Long time no talked to. It sounds like you'll well and still doing good thinking, as when you said getting rid of religion will change nothing since we'll still be killing each other in a greed feed. (my take on you said, not your words.)

I agree with you. And after reading your post, thinking about it, I realized how your idea is substantiated by the facts of the current state of group consciousness.

For the last couple of years, I've lived the life of a crazed ping ball on speed flying back and forth between hope and dispair. Lately, I spend more time in despair and it takes an incredible effort to even roll toward hope, much less fly.

In my current state of mind, the human species is doomed. I think many people also think this.

I often obsess trying to figure out the cause of our demise. It's a race of many possible causes.

I think the contenders are: global warming; nuclear suicide; a deadly virus; a mass migration to a better afterlife; the disappearance of everything into the last Black Hole (I wonder if they'll be another point of singularity leading to another Big Band?).

Some ends will be quick and some slow. But end it will.

Hell's belles! I need to move away from despair. I thnk I'll write a story today. Something light and frothy. wrc
Hope is interesting, when Pandora opened the box that released all the evils in the world, hope remained within the box. What does this say about hope, given the company it kept?
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-18-2016, 02:08 PM
Non Serviam's Avatar
Non Serviam (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 1,463
Thanks: 71
Thanks 590
Default

There is self-evidently no God. For a given value of God, that is.

I mean, the universe exists. Why? Why is there something rather than nothing? A cause --- a reason --- must exist. If "God" is the name you give to that very first, un-caused cause, then sure, there's a God. Clearly. But that says nothing. It doesn't imply that God can think, or love, or hate, or do anything apart from be an effect without a cause.

Because it must be a cause without an effect, it follows that a Creator is not fully subject to time as we understand it. That's pretty divine stuff if you ask me.

(The God of the Abrahamic religions, which includes Christianity, is at right angles to time. He's not just an uncaused cause, he also knows everything ---- full omniscience! ---- so he can see the future as clearly as the past. And yet He made mankind with real free will. Get your head around how that could work. Is it that He made us with free will but knew, in the moment of making us, exactly what choices we would make? Or does He choose not to know?)

But even though that Creator God might very well exist, if you have a mind that can observe the world around it and still somehow believe in a God who's all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving, then I don't want to talk to you about religion at all. I'd much rather talk to you about some swampland I have for sale.

I mean, young children get bone cancer and die in horrible pain. If your all-powerful, all-loving God allows that then He can go and get knotted. I'll cheerfully go to Hell before I worship such a thing.

In other words, my God might very well exist but yours certainly doesn't....
__________________
A few of my stories:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
;
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
;

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


English is a strange language. It can be understood through tough thorough thought though.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-19-2016, 06:52 AM
eripiomundus (Online)
The Next Bard
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 453
Thanks: 29
Thanks 123
Default

Great post Non Serviam. So much so that I can't help but elaborate on it.

Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
There is self-evidently no God. For a given value of God, that is.

I mean, the universe exists. Why? Why is there something rather than nothing? A cause --- a reason --- must exist. If "God" is the name you give to that very first, un-caused cause, then sure, there's a God. Clearly. But that says nothing. It doesn't imply that God can think, or love, or hate, or do anything apart from be an effect without a cause.
If you posit that the universe requires a cause because it exists, then the same rationale applies to any creator of that universe: the creator exists, therefore it must have a cause. This is a problem of infinite regress.

(The God of the Abrahamic religions, which includes Christianity, is at right angles to time. He's not just an uncaused cause, he also knows everything ---- full omniscience! ---- so he can see the future as clearly as the past. And yet He made mankind with real free will. Get your head around how that could work. Is it that He made us with free will but knew, in the moment of making us, exactly what choices we would make? Or does He choose not to know?)
Exactly. Either "God" knows everything, or we have free will. It can't be both. In the case that He knows everything: he knew that we would be naughty monkeys, and made us anyway. Think about that: He intentionally made us naughty, and then got mad and punished us when we acted as per his instructions... sadist?

In the case that he gave us free will, then he doesn't know something, and isn't the almighty God He's supposed to be.

The bare necessities for an Abrahamic God are something like: Omniscience, omnipotence, and is the creator of all that is... Wait! God is the big bang?

The big bang singularity contained all the power in the universe (omnipotence). When it exploded the specific initial conditions, together with the laws that governed them, dictated how every event will unfold for all of time, and therefore contained within it the instructions for everything (omniscience and the creator of all that is). Whallah! We have God.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-19-2016, 06:56 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 4,184
Thanks: 382
Thanks 718
Default

A Rant: Letís Bury God and Grown Up
might be more effective as

A Rant: Let's Bury God and Grow UP

A Rant: Let's Bury God and the Grown Ups

A Rant: Let's Bury God and Groan (Up toward Heaven)
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-20-2016, 10:37 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,679
Thanks: 32
Thanks 185
Default

I mean, young children get bone cancer and die in horrible pain. If your all-powerful, all-loving God allows that then He can go and get knotted. I'll cheerfully go to Hell before I worship such a thing.


That's something I don't understand either--why God allows azzholes to live to 90. But, in your mind, there is only darkness--eternal sleep. In your mind, dying young is a dishonor. If, in YOUR mind, you desire hell, be prepared to receive it. However, children who die any which way, will arrive in heaven.

Are you a car salesman, by any chance?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-20-2016, 01:37 PM
max crash's Avatar
max crash (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: The Keep, just beyond the orbit of mars
Posts: 2,239
Thanks: 147
Thanks 404
Default

so why is death a sad thing --- if heaven is the next stop --- shouldn't it be a celebration.

I also guess that's why taking ones own life is a mortal sin that can not be forgiven. it would be like going to the amusement park.


max
__________________
if you're writing over your readers head - tum etiam, ut graece scribens --- the secret of success changes;the truth of failure remains constant; if you try to please everyone you will fail.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-21-2016, 11:12 AM
NuNu (Offline)
Profusive Denizen
Official Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 270
Thanks: 66
Thanks 62
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
I mean, young children get bone cancer and die in horrible pain. If your all-powerful, all-loving God allows that then He can go and get knotted. I'll cheerfully go to Hell before I worship such a thing.


That's something I don't understand either--why God allows azzholes to live to 90. But, in your mind, there is only darkness--eternal sleep. In your mind, dying young is a dishonor. If, in YOUR mind, you desire hell, be prepared to receive it. However, children who die any which way, will arrive in heaven.

Are you a car salesman, by any chance?
Clearly you have the image of God being an old white man with a white beard who allows and doesn't allow things.

That's Zeus. And that's the version of God we should bury.

But that's a child's version of God.

So I don't blame you for not believing in that.
I don't.
My version of God is much more complex than that.
__________________
" Life's Permanent Temptation is to Confuse Dreams with Reality. Life's Permanent Defeat is to Surrender to Reality." ---Unknown
Reply With Quote
Reply

  WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:02 PM.

vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.