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are all head of states ultimately corrupt?

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  #1  
Old 08-22-2016, 02:32 PM
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Icon3 are all head of states ultimately corrupt?


power does get to their heads.

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Old 08-22-2016, 02:49 PM
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Was Margret Thatcher corrupt? John Major? Tony Blair?
Gordon Brown? David Cameron?

I don't know much about John Major or Gordon Brown, but Tony Blair and David Cameron seemed like upstanding guys.

What was it they called Ms. Thatcher? The Iron Lady or "Atilla the Hen"-"She-elephant" -Rude that one.

Tony Blair-"Bambi"- "Teflon Tony"

Gordon Brown-"Flash Gordon"

How about Obama? I call him "Dickweed"

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Old 08-22-2016, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
power does get to their heads.
Depends on how much power they are given, if they are, then yes
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmymc View Post
Was Margret Thatcher corrupt? John Major? Tony Blair?
Gordon Brown? David Cameron?
let see...yes they were all corrupt.
they all did something to piss people off.

I don't know much about John Major or Gordon Brown, but Tony Blair and David Cameron seemed like upstanding guys.

What was it they called Ms. Thatcher? The Iron Lady or "Atilla the Hen"-"She-elephant" -Rude that one.

Tony Blair-"Bambi"- "Teflon Tony"

Gordon Brown-"Flash Gordon"
"
How about Obama? I call him "Dickweed
dickweed.
why?
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Depends on how much power they are given, if they are, then yes
are we suggesting power is distributed according to merits?
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
are we suggesting power is distributed according to merits?
I believe people (agents) aren't stupid enough to require governance, and are, especially with the tech available, more than capable of self governance. I don't feel one agent should have the power to effect the actions of a second agent.
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:06 PM
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Have you ever been on a neighborhood board or even the member of a club or committee where there's a "ruling" body with a president or chairman etc?

It depends on the individual of course, but even a small amount of power over something that isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things can go do someone's head and make them unreasonable or feel they're above the rules. There was even a schism in my wife's book club because someone thought she should be in charge.

I really can't imagine that being a head of state wouldn't go to your head to some degree, but I don't know that it always results in an abuse of power.

More likely, there's a system in place that it is already corrupt on some level and you just have to play along to get anything accomplished.
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Old 08-22-2016, 08:00 PM
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You have define corrupt and then look at them.

George Washington - Good man, not corrupt.
John Adams - Corrupt - his main man Alexander Hamilton really corrupt
Thomas Jefferson - Not Corrupt

Skipping a few
Andy Jackson - A madman, but not corrupt. Other than displacing some wagonburners at Congress behest still a good president in my mind.

Skipping a few -
Abe Lincoln. Evil, made Machiavelli's prince jealous, not personally corrupt but allowed a lot of people to skim during the War of Northern Agression.

Andrew Johnson - reputation for being corrupt. I don't agree with that - he was stuck with a lot of cabinet picks that he couldn't control. His impeachment, which narrowly missed in the Senate, was a sham.

Ulysses S. Grant Transcontinental Railroad built under his watch - Corrupt

skipping

Teddy Rooseveldt - Admire him as a man, but not his start of progressivism in the US. Despite his politics, not corrupt.

FDR - Morally bankrupt

Harry Truman - A True Man

Ike - I like Ike, not corrupt

JFK - Corrupt

LBJ - Corrupt

Ricard Millhouse Nixon - Corrupt

Gerald Ford - Feckess but not corrupt

Jimmy Carter - incompetent boob, but not corrupt

Reagan - not Corrupt

Bush I - Not Corrupt

W. Jefferson Clinton - look up corrupt in Websters and W. Jefferson Clinton's picture is next to the definition.

Bush II - Corrupt

Obama - Corrupt
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Old 08-23-2016, 01:20 AM
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Of course they are. Why else would anyone do such a thankless job unless they got some nice incentives?

The more successful ones cover their tracks well. The more upstanding and decent they present themselves the murkier they actually are, in my experience. The way Thatcher carried on you'd think her farts didn't smell, but we now know she had dirty dealings re Jimmy Savile, police brutality, Saudi arms deals etc.

And don't get me started on Teflon Tony.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:54 AM
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F'Tart - would you class anyone reaching that pinnacle, especially today to be a sociopath?
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:26 AM
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I would say most politicians have sociopathic tendencies, which means they exhibit associated behaviors in some situations, but they have some empathy and a genuine respect for people in other situations, like in their personal relationships etc., unlike a true sociopath. Which means there's a scale. I think it would be a big stretch to say all leaders sociopaths.
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:39 AM
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Based on Observation

Trump - some sociopathic tendencies
Hillary - Sociopath
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
F'Tart - would you class anyone reaching that pinnacle, especially today to be a sociopath?
It's a sweeping statement, but certain personality types are attracted to power for all the wrong reasons. And of course power corrupts. So the chances are high.
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
Of course they are. Why else would anyone do such a thankless job unless they got some nice incentives?

The more successful ones cover their tracks well. The more upstanding and decent they present themselves the murkier they actually are, in my experience. The way Thatcher carried on you'd think her farts didn't smell, but we now know she had dirty dealings re Jimmy Savile, police brutality, Saudi arms deals etc.

And don't get me started on Teflon Tony.


indeed
and what about Tony?
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Old 08-24-2016, 01:28 AM
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I said don't get me started.

Google "Tony Blair" and "corruption". You'll get a slew of articles on the subject.
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Old 08-26-2016, 03:31 PM
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No. There are some heads of state that are good people and generally look after the welfare of the people. Take Greenland, for example. No high crime rate, no illegal immigration, etc.
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Old 08-26-2016, 11:33 PM
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hmm... I'm not sure abusing power is the same as being corrupt. I always thought of corruption as stealing money with shady deals. But now it occurs to me that without the power base there's no opportunity to steal. But I'm not sure that everyone with lots of power is stealing.

On the other hand if someone has a career of public service and ends up one of the 1% they are probably currupt. Proving it may be difficult.

I hate the ruling class. Let's get rid of them and start over. wrc
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Old 08-27-2016, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by c_elieson View Post
No. There are some heads of state that are good people and generally look after the welfare of the people. Take Greenland, for example. No high crime rate, no illegal immigration, etc.
I don't doubt it. The way Iceland dealt with its bankers is a shining example to the rest of the world.
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