WritersBeat.com
 

Go Back   WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table

The Intellectual Table Discussions on political topics, social issues, current affairs, etc.


The Answer Is More Teddy Bears

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 04-26-2017, 04:45 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default


Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Maybe, maybe not. We don't really know because we're so used to everyone being taxed to fuck we can't really fathom a world without it. Remember we don't just get taxed, every business does as well. Everyone ends up paying 30 - 50% of their income. If that is reclaimed then operating as a business is a lot easier, you can bring down your margins, charge less. If you don't, someone will undercut you and you'll have to compete.

Really to answer your question... someone. Someone will build the roads, and if they need investment to do so, they'll have to make it attractive and affordable.

There's probably just as much private security on the streets as police. It'll work like insurance. You sign up... if you don't call them or get burgled etc you can have a nice no claims bonus


In the US nobody pays 30-50% of their income for taxes. I own a small business and pay about 15% of the money I make in taxes after all is said and done (and deducted). The more money one makes in business, the less taxes one ends up on the hook for here. I hear lots of bitching about our corporate tax rate, but the reality is much different.

If we cut out taxes on people there would be no roads to places many wanted to go. The rural areas and suburbs would be cut off in a very short time, forcing people into the already crowded city centers, and prices would skyrocket there for real estate and everything else.

There will always be some people who are on the dole and don't want to work for it, but giving them enough money, education, healthcare, and opportunity is probably a better answer than having a massive throng of angry, stupid, desperate people threatening at the gates perpetually.

Free market privatization of almost everything would put us back to the dark ages quickly. These people out there in the hinterlands would eventually commission a king or warlord and rally behind him to rape, pillage, and destroy the city on the hill.

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-28-2017, 01:01 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
In the US nobody pays 30-50% of their income for taxes. I own a small business and pay about 15% of the money I make in taxes after all is said and done (and deducted). The more money one makes in business, the less taxes one ends up on the hook for here. I hear lots of bitching about our corporate tax rate, but the reality is much different.

If we cut out taxes on people there would be no roads to places many wanted to go. The rural areas and suburbs would be cut off in a very short time, forcing people into the already crowded city centers, and prices would skyrocket there for real estate and everything else.

There will always be some people who are on the dole and don't want to work for it, but giving them enough money, education, healthcare, and opportunity is probably a better answer than having a massive throng of angry, stupid, desperate people threatening at the gates perpetually.

Free market privatization of almost everything would put us back to the dark ages quickly. These people out there in the hinterlands would eventually commission a king or warlord and rally behind him to rape, pillage, and destroy the city on the hill.

Sorry man but I really think this is just what the establishment want us to believe. I feel like I went through this throughout my early years I was taught to believe the market was the boogie man which was kept at bay and restrained by the heroic state.

But the market really is just us, getting all the shit done which needs to be done. It is every SME, and most of the big scary corporations are bolstered and propped up by the state rather than contained by it. Why, if corporations and banks are so afraid of the state, are they so wildly in favour of it? The corps and the banks were bearing down on everyone during the EU referendum urging them to vote remain. Because all their guys are in Brussels for reasons I hardly need to explain.

If we talk about optimism, for me it really betrays the most pessimistic view to suggest that we simply won't be able to handle road building without the government. Explain why there's no way we could build a road to a place 'many wanted to go' without the state.

To be fair I left out personal allowance. So there is a certain amount you can earn before you start paying tax, this amount isn't enough to live on but the government don't touch it. After this amount you'll pay 20% income Tax, plus 12% National Insurance, anything over 40k (approx think it's a bit more) it'll go up to 42% and the next band is 50% I believe.

In any event you add that up with corporate tax, inheritance tax, council tax, VAT, import duties and whatever else and you have somewhere in the region of 600 billion for the year. The tax revenue keeps going up and up... and so does the debt, somewhere around 1.5 trillion... and 'austerity' bites.

But don't worry about what they're doing all over the world with this money... they do build our roads after all

Edit: they often don't build our roads, and pay some private company crazy amounts to do it instead. They call it public private partnerships... which is just crowd funding (do it ourselves), with some retard -- who has probably been paid off -- doing the negotiations for you.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.

Last edited by JohnConstantine; 04-28-2017 at 02:06 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-28-2017, 06:43 AM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default

Yes. The government doesn't build roads. It pays companies to do it.

I didn't say that people couldn't build their own roads, I said they wouldn't build them to places it was not profitable for them to go. But... people still live in places that are unprofitable to go.

Anyway, road building is just a stand in for all the other things government does.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-28-2017, 06:46 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Online)
Scribbling Master
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 851
Thanks: 151
Thanks 169
Default

And maybe not a particularly good stand in.

Aging infrastructure issues aside, it seems to be one of the few things government manages to do fairly well.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-28-2017, 07:27 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

It's actually the most common stand in for these debates, followed by the fabled dystopia, mad max scenario. But we can pick anything really. The government may do it well. But that simply doesn't justify the existence of literally the most violent entity in all of history by far.

Correct me if I'm interpreting this wrong. If it's unprofitable for people to go to the suburbs, then why does anyone live there now? How do they make their money? Doesn't business necessitate connections between the city and the suburbs to ferry goods (from farms, factories) and people back and forth? -- hence natural profitable reasons to build roads.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-28-2017, 07:45 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Online)
Scribbling Master
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 851
Thanks: 151
Thanks 169
Default

I know it's a common stand it. But comparability, it's not anywhere near as complex as healthcare, or education etc. -- so using it as a stand in isn't of much value.

And practically speaking, it will never be an either/or proposition -- at least in the U.S. and in my lifetime -- and barring some cataclysmic event.

It will continue to be an endless game of political football -- trying to hit the right balance between the size of government and the role of private enterprise -- with liberals and conservatives pushing their particularly agendas and ideologies -- with everyone most concerned about what's in it for them.

Oh well.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-28-2017, 08:04 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

It's not that complicated. Tax is just crowd funding. The only difference is you are not convinced to voluntarily subscribe, you're signed up by default.

So things like education and healthcare are simply provided by actors within the market. They convince you to subscribe to their programme, and you sign up because it's in your best interest... or, don't sign up, if you think they're full of shit.

Think of gym membership. Used to be exclusive, now most people can afford it. You can attend some pretty nice gyms for say 30 per month which house everything you need to get fit.

Sure paying 100, 200, 3000, per month might get you better facilities but without the natural physique and hard work who cares?

And for those who can't even afford budget healthcare/schools, what do we do?

Well there are two things which come into my mind. If we're really concerned about the health of the less fortunate, we put our money where our mouth is and give to a charity which will subsidise or fully fund education for those who can prove that they do not have the income.

Or, we only sign up to schools and health care organisations who use a percentage of their profits to educate and care for those who can't afford it.

Just takes a bit of creativity, and these are just my dumb thoughts -- people will come up with all sorts. We're nothing if not creative.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-28-2017, 04:18 PM
moonpunter's Avatar
moonpunter (Offline)
Dedicated Writer
Official Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Midway, Iowa
Posts: 235
Thanks: 13
Thanks 42
Default

Sorry but your anarchist utopia is pretty asinine. Instead of paying taxes to the government, I've got to pay someone to build a road to my house (and maintain it) and for police, fire, trash collection, healthcare, education, and everything else? And if you think corporations are corrupt now, what about when there's absolutely no one holding them in check?

They did a Family Guy episode about this years ago. Peter and his pals join the Tea Party and get the government shut down and then find out that hey, government actually does stuff. So then they "crowdsource" the problem--effectively reinstating the government.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-28-2017, 06:40 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post

Correct me if I'm interpreting this wrong. If it's unprofitable for people to go to the suburbs, then why does anyone live there now? How do they make their money? Doesn't business necessitate connections between the city and the suburbs to ferry goods (from farms, factories) and people back and forth? -- hence natural profitable reasons to build roads.

Yes, but if MY company builds the road to a subdivision (because lots of my employees want to live away from the city) then it's MY road, and the rest of you will have to pay to drive on it. And if I cooperate with lots of other companies financially to build a road (or roads) then we eventually become a governing body with the power to allow whomever we want to drive on it, and keep others off. You see where that leads, yeah?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-28-2017, 08:46 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default

And there are lots of things under roads you might not know about. Like utilities... it's one thing to build an expensive well-maintained road, and quite another to manage what goes with it.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 04-28-2017, 08:52 PM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by moonpunter View Post
Sorry but your anarchist utopia is pretty asinine. Instead of paying taxes to the government, I've got to pay someone to build a road to my house (and maintain it) and for police, fire, trash collection, healthcare, education, and everything else? And if you think corporations are corrupt now, what about when there's absolutely no one holding them in check?

They did a Family Guy episode about this years ago. Peter and his pals join the Tea Party and get the government shut down and then find out that hey, government actually does stuff. So then they "crowdsource" the problem--effectively reinstating the government.
Anarchist yes. Utopia, is cute.

You haven't GOT to do anything, that's the point. But, where there is necessity, there will be service and you can take your pick as to what you think is worthwhile.

And like someone once said, not gonna mention the name, taxes would be voluntary in an ideal world. 'Government' is fine, so long as you can remove your subscription at any time
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-28-2017, 08:54 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default The Answer Is More Teddy Bears

I must admit, you had me on the ropes a few posts back when all I could answer was: I'm an optimist. But now that you've played your hand, JC, I've got a second wind.

The truth is there is no answer yet invented. We have to invent new ideas. Marx was right and wrong, but so were the proponents of capitalism.

Yeah, I'm still an optimist.

Last edited by brianpatrick; 04-28-2017 at 08:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-28-2017, 09:08 PM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Yes, but if MY company builds the road to a subdivision (because lots of my employees want to live away from the city) then it's MY road, and the rest of you will have to pay to drive on it. And if I cooperate with lots of other companies financially to build a road (or roads) then we eventually become a governing body with the power to allow whomever we want to drive on it, and keep others off. You see where that leads, yeah?
Yeah, some sort of road guild. Fine. You'll have a bunch of guilds it's natural but you'll still have to cater to your customers in one way or another. So say you built it to allow goods to travel into the city, if you're carrying goods presumably you can bargain to travel for free. For those travelling for non-business related reasons you as a business man would need to consider a) what people were willing to pay to get into the city and b) whether charging people would decrease the amount of people coming to the city thereby decreasing the money spent there on your products.

In any case insinuating that some road corporation would result in government is not adequate. ISIS is a better example first thing they will do (are doing) in order to establish the new Caliphate is to run around all the local businesses demanding a tax, say 20 - 30 per cent, and if you don't pay, they will kill you and your entire family... that's how it goes in its infant stages, just dudes with guns, nothing more.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-28-2017, 09:23 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default

That's exactly what I was saying in the beginning. Either they would eventually become a civil governing body or they would become warlords. And eventually warlords will unite in a common cause and also become a governing body. Genghis Khan.

So... one day, one of the top directors decides he doesn't want black people on his roads. Or Muslims. Or faggots. Hey, and a majority of the white christians feel bad for the minority fringe, but how can they possibly be expected to bear the burden of all those heathens and degenerates?

Let's let the lord make his will known... leave it to him.

Eh? See where we're going now?
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-28-2017, 09:26 PM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
That's exactly what I was saying in the beginning. Either they would eventually become a civil governing body or they would become warlords. And eventually warlords will unite in a common cause and also become a governing body. Genghis Khan.

So... one day, one of the top directors decides he doesn't want black people on his roads. Or Muslims. Or faggots. Hey, and a majority of the white christians feel bad for the minority fringe, but how can they possibly be expected to bear the burden of all those heathens and degenerates?

Let's let the lord make his will known... leave it to him.

Eh? See where we're going now?
Well without fully addressing this, can we agree that 'warlords' aren't legitimate?
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-28-2017, 09:37 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Well without fully addressing this, can we agree that 'warlords' aren't legitimate?


That depends on what you mean by legitimate. Do you mean possible or realistic?
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-29-2017, 03:57 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
That depends on what you mean by legitimate. Do you mean possible or realistic?
No I mean morally sound.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-29-2017, 04:36 AM
moonpunter's Avatar
moonpunter (Offline)
Dedicated Writer
Official Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Midway, Iowa
Posts: 235
Thanks: 13
Thanks 42
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Yeah, some sort of road guild. Fine. You'll have a bunch of guilds it's natural but you'll still have to cater to your customers in one way or another. So say you built it to allow goods to travel into the city, if you're carrying goods presumably you can bargain to travel for free. For those travelling for non-business related reasons you as a business man would need to consider a) what people were willing to pay to get into the city and b) whether charging people would decrease the amount of people coming to the city thereby decreasing the money spent there on your products.

In any case insinuating that some road corporation would result in government is not adequate. ISIS is a better example first thing they will do (are doing) in order to establish the new Caliphate is to run around all the local businesses demanding a tax, say 20 - 30 per cent, and if you don't pay, they will kill you and your entire family... that's how it goes in its infant stages, just dudes with guns, nothing more.
Your system sounds like such a hassle. Every time I want to go to work or the supermarket I have to negotiate passage through the territory of a bunch of guilds now? Where is the advantage in that?
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-29-2017, 05:34 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Online)
Scribbling Master
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 851
Thanks: 151
Thanks 169
Default

No worries, all. Flying cars and jet packs are on the way.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-29-2017, 08:12 AM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
No I mean morally sound.


Ok, I'll agree to that, but what does that have to do with anything?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to brianpatrick For This Useful Post:
moonpunter (04-29-2017)
  #51  
Old 04-29-2017, 10:01 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by moonpunter View Post
Your system sounds like such a hassle. Every time I want to go to work or the supermarket I have to negotiate passage through the territory of a bunch of guilds now? Where is the advantage in that?
No I think that's very doubtful. All I'm really saying is that there are natural advantages to connecting the suburbs to the city. Because you'll want people to come and buy your shit, and you'll need a means of transferring shit from farms and factories etc etc so there will be a monetary reward for building roads. Hence roads will get built, and this is just one reason, there will be lots of reasons to build road and we'll figure it out. It's not a system, all it is is people acting voluntarily.

Business people tend to be rational, it wouldn't really make sense, or be practically enforceable to stop gays coming in.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 04-29-2017, 10:07 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Ok, I'll agree to that, but what does that have to do with anything?
Well we seem to be going down the road of 'in a free society some warlords will end up taxing people anyway'.

That's fine, all I really want is for people to be hostile towards that (the warlords). And not think that it's moral or dutiful, which currently they do.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 04-29-2017, 01:43 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Well we seem to be going down the road of 'in a free society some warlords will end up taxing people anyway'.



That's fine, all I really want is for people to be hostile towards that (the warlords). And not think that it's moral or dutiful, which currently they do.


I agree with that. But that's how we got where we got.

Simplified scenario:

Strong man claims land and begins to use its resources. He hires help and security (we'll forget about slave labor for now), and grows a business, farm, ranch, industry, whatever. Pretty soon, a town develops and a town council is elected or appointed to handle organizing law enforcement, fire control, municipal duties (which start small but grow big eventually). They make sure there's a doctor, maybe a medical clinic, other businesses like general store, and all the rest.

All of those things become commons. Yeah, the strong man finances a lot of it in the beginning, but eventually others have to pay too. And the funny thing about people is they are opportunists. Nobody wants or can afford to voluntarily pay. So maybe they start with a small transaction fee on purchases to cover the cops, the fire, and the utilities they all need. You know, a sales tax. It's the most efficient way to set aside a little extra to pay for what we all use.

Now warlord is probably the wrong word, but I think you know what I mean.

So... hierarchy, or government is a natural part of building a town. And then a city. And then a county. And then a state. And so on.

We are past the stage where we can just go back to a free market system. There aren't enough free and easy to get resources anymore. Everything is already owned by someone. And slavery has been outlawed. Slavery was the way a system like that could afford to operate and generate the kind of wealth it did. It's like we've always cheated the reality of economics to drive our economy. That model doesn't work otherwise. Nothing trickles down. In fact, corporations and businesses end up taking more and more tax money so growth can still happen at the level they like. Government checks come every month like clock work.

Now... we blow up things in other countries so we can go in and rebuild them and make their countries into nice western style consumers. We can also get cheap labor and increase profits that way.

I don't know how much longer this cycle can continue, but we can't go back to free market capitalism. It's wouldn't be profitable enough to support everything.

Well, a mass extinction might allow us to reset a bit... clear up some land a resources for a while.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 04-29-2017, 04:39 PM
moonpunter's Avatar
moonpunter (Offline)
Dedicated Writer
Official Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Midway, Iowa
Posts: 235
Thanks: 13
Thanks 42
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post

Business people tend to be rational, it wouldn't really make sense, or be practically enforceable to stop gays coming in.
LOL, like those bakeries that won't make cakes for gay weddings? The implication is that there's some morality inherent in pure capitalism, which simply isn't true. Big Tobacco knew about the dangers of cigarettes for a long time and didn't warn anyone. Ford knew the Pinto was dangerous. GM trucks with exploding fuel tanks. Samsung and their exploding Note 7s. Volkswagen fudging emissions tests. Pharmaceutical companies fudging testing so they can get drugs approved. United overbooking flights. On and on and on.

Read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair sometime. Before there was government oversight, meat packers let anything into their meat: rotten meat, rats, even human parts that got caught in the machinery. You think they were going to clean up their act on their own? LOL
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 04-29-2017, 08:20 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default

...and today, unlike in the past, most gay people don't hide the fact they are gay making it easier to discriminate against them.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 04-29-2017, 09:54 PM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Ok, I'll agree to that, but what does that have to do with anything?
Originally Posted by moonpunter View Post
LOL, like those bakeries that won't make cakes for gay weddings? The implication is that there's some morality inherent in pure capitalism, which simply isn't true. Big Tobacco knew about the dangers of cigarettes for a long time and didn't warn anyone. Ford knew the Pinto was dangerous. GM trucks with exploding fuel tanks. Samsung and their exploding Note 7s. Volkswagen fudging emissions tests. Pharmaceutical companies fudging testing so they can get drugs approved. United overbooking flights. On and on and on.

Read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair sometime. Before there was government oversight, meat packers let anything into their meat: rotten meat, rats, even human parts that got caught in the machinery. You think they were going to clean up their act on their own? LOL

Not on their own, no. But they will clean up their act.

I love it, people really think we're totally useless and couldn't perform simple tasks without our dear leader. And I'm the pessimist!

So restaurants and hotels behave because Tripadvisor. Expand that to include hygiene tests and whatever, you pass you end up on the Tripadvisor's recommended list, and here's where you eat. Anyone not on the list, you take your chances with

In short, we can vet goods and services ourselves, we do it already.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 04-29-2017, 09:58 PM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
...and today, unlike in the past, most gay people don't hide the fact they are gay making it easier to discriminate against them.
When do we see this in real life though, in the business world, apart from one story about cakes which was a really bad business move and damaged the baker's reputation? -- It's really not a good idea to gain a reputation for being a cunt as a business person, people will usually stop doing business with you.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 04-29-2017, 10:12 PM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Oh and on the question of morality.

We've established that dudes running around with guns demanding tax, as ISIS are doing now, as every armed group in history must do in order to gain/retain power, is immoral.

It's immoral because transactions should be voluntary. I have an apple, you have an orange, I value the orange more than my apple, you vice versa, we swap, everything is right with the lord.

However if I value the orange more than my apple, but you don't value my apple at all, no deal. I can either accept that (moral) or forcibly take the orange, which at this point becomes unethical.

To remain ethical then, we propose that no force should be used, in transactions or any other matter. That all interactions must be voluntary.

To condense to two golden rules:

1. You cannot initiate force.
2. You must honour your contracts.

That's it, pretty simple. You wouldn't think that the non-initiation of force would be so scary and inflammatory, but it is.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 04-30-2017, 06:39 AM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,173
Thanks: 286
Thanks 687
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Not on their own, no. But they will clean up their act.



I love it, people really think we're totally useless and couldn't perform simple tasks without our dear leader. And I'm the pessimist!



So restaurants and hotels behave because Tripadvisor. Expand that to include hygiene tests and whatever, you pass you end up on the Tripadvisor's recommended list, and here's where you eat. Anyone not on the list, you take your chances with



In short, we can vet goods and services ourselves, we do it already.


As a hotel, you end up on TripAdvisor's good list by paying an advertising fee to TripAdvisor. The bigger the fee, the better your hotel is. Same with Angie's List and all the other companies who make money rating other companies. The more you pay, the more the algorithm suppresses negative reviews and accentuates positive ones.

Most online ratings are dramatically skewed in favor of companies that pay to play. And big companies pay people to write positive reviews or puff advert pieces all over the place.

Theoretically what you're talking about sounds fine, but on paper communism also looks good.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 04-30-2017, 12:19 PM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 195
Thanks 660
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
As a hotel, you end up on TripAdvisor's good list by paying an advertising fee to TripAdvisor. The bigger the fee, the better your hotel is. Same with Angie's List and all the other companies who make money rating other companies. The more you pay, the more the algorithm suppresses negative reviews and accentuates positive ones.

Most online ratings are dramatically skewed in favor of companies that pay to play. And big companies pay people to write positive reviews or puff advert pieces all over the place.

Theoretically what you're talking about sounds fine, but on paper communism also looks good.

Tripadvisor works pretty well though right? I mean if I'm gonna go to a restaurant, there's no government agency I'll be going to for tips.

And not like lobbying doesn't happen in the public sector, it's basically founded upon it.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Teddy Attack. (Short story) Asferthecat Fiction 11 07-14-2012 08:37 AM
The Bears lost! Get over it! Unknown_Hero Free Writing 39 01-29-2011 06:27 PM
Members' Choice Nominations - February/March Mridula Members' Choice 8 04-20-2008 03:52 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:18 AM.

vBulletin, Copyright 2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.