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Twilight - A Question

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  #91  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Gwyndolin View Post
Dude - if you read my post, I actually said I enjoyed the read, and I let my kids read them once they reach an appropriate age. But I do believe there is a downside to these books, and my suggestion to cautious parents is that they read them alongside their children so that they can discuss the behaviors that happen within the books.

I don't think that's any different than telling your children that they can't watch rated R or PG-13 movies. The ratings are there for a reason. I realize that they aren't there for books, which is why I try to read what my kids are reading so that we can talk about it.

I'm certainly not screaming to ban them. I'm just advising responsible parents to pay attention to what their youth are consuming by the way of media, and be prepared to talk to them about it.

I actually thought the Twilight Saga was a decent story. I would not call myself an anti-Twilighter, by any means. I own the books. I'm just saying there's a downside to them, especially when it comes to young girls, because they typically already have a pretty unrealistic view on love.

This is not me being "twitchy" where my "level of intellectual understanding" is concerned. I am not an idiot, and I don't appreciate the insinuation. This is me being a responsible parent. I don't assume that my 15 year old will see it for "just a story." Hopefully she will, but I take the extra step of talking to her about it - of teaching her right from wrong.

Sorry if my parenting style is somehow displeasing to you.

By the way, I also agree that people have gone way overboard with their Twilight hate. They pick the writing apart, and they feel that they are somehow entitled to more than Stephenie Meyer because they spotted errors within her writing. I personally got lost enough in the stories not to notice, and I haven't bothered to go back to look for it.

I also rather enjoyed her other book, The Host.

I do suggest you read them, though, before you engage so emphatically in a debate over them. It seems silly to me that you are attacking people for their opinions on books you haven't even bothered to pick up. If you were to read them, maybe you would understand what we're talking about a little more.
You seem a bit annoyed. And nope, I'm not insulting your intelligence or you personally. If you want to take my observations about the Twilight debate in general that way, thats your prerogative.

I'm not interested in the books. I don't need to read them to be able to comprehend and understand the opinions being posted in here. (That you think I do might be construed by a twitchy sort as an insult to my intelligence and comprehension levels in turn.) What I'm interested in is opening the arguers' eyes to the venom and hatred held in their opinions and maybe making them think a bit more about what they're saying and why. Nothing more than that and no big deal. Certainly no offense meant on my part to anyone in here.

Anyway, just my two bob's worth. Take it personally or not, I don't give a shit.

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  #92  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Gwyndolin View Post
Then, at the end of that book, he forces a kiss on her, and then blames her for leading him on.
I can hit y'all up with the quote for that:

"His lips crushed mine, stopping my protest. He kissed me angrily, roughly, his other hand gripping tight around the back of my neck, making escape impossible. I shoved against his chest with all my strength, but he didn't even seem to notice. His mouth was soft, despite the anger, his lips molding to mine in a warm, unfamiliar way.

I grabbed at his face, trying to push it away, failing again. He seemed to notice this time, though, and it aggravated him. His lips forced mine open, and I could feel his hot breath in my mouth.

Acting on instinct, I let my hands drop to my side, and shut down. I opened my eyes and didn't fight, didn't feel . . . just waited for him to stop.
"

Then, after he does stop, she punches him and breaks her hand (she has what I've heard called adora-klutz issues). Jacob replies with:

"I held up my injured hand. He sighed. "That wasn't my fault. You should have known better"

Well that's okay then. How does her father take this though?

""Hey, Charlie," Jacob answered casually, pausing. I stalked on to the kitchen.

"What's wrong with her?" Charlie [Bella's dad] wondered.

"She thinks she broke her hand," I heard Jacob tell him. I went to the freezer and pulled out a tray of ice cubes.

"How did she do that?" As my father, I thought Charlie ought to sound a bit less amused and a bit more concerned.

Jacob laughed. "She hit me."

Charlie laughed, too, and I scowled while I beat the tray against the edge of the sink. The ice scattered inside the basin, and I grabbed a handful with my good hand and wrapped the cubes in the dishcloth on the counter.

"Why did she hit you?"

"Because I kissed her," Jacob said, unashamed.

"Good for you, kid," Charlie congratulated him."


It's just baaaad. If I come across anything else, I'll point it out.
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  #93  
Old 12-27-2010, 09:12 AM
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Thank you!!!

See? That passage makes me feel sick to my stomach!
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:17 AM
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So Jacob kissed her? I thought it was Edward.

Anyway, though that excerpt didn't sing to me with all the drama and life of great writing, it did show something very understandable to many teen girls: a guy ignoring a girl's wishes, and the girl's problems with that not being taken seriously by authority figures. Male dominant culture at its most basic, with the woman relegated to a passive role and being punished (by pain in this case) when she objects.

Now, if the book tells young girls that this is normal and right, that's a problem. If it makes them mad because they know it's not right, that's an awareness-raiser. Oftentimes, as a previous poster mentioned, parents can take the opportunity to talk to kids about those issues. Ask them what they think, and help them see the underlying message. Talk about how these "scripts" work or don't work in relationships. Talk to guys about how the "keep pushing and you'll get her" advice can be downright wrong, and make sure all your kids know that no means no.

If parents step up, then long after those kids grow out of Twilight, they'll remember the lesson they learned about reading critically. Maybe they'll start to see how the same consent issues play out in romantic comedies, (where guys often engage in stalkerish behavior and ignore noes, and it all works out because they were "meant for each other") or romance novels (where a forced kiss usually leads to the heroine suddenly melting and spreading her legs because, hey, Randy MacRogue is a damn sexy pirate).
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:21 AM
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But judging from most of the reactions I've heard, it doesn't make them mad. As Gwyn was saying, her daughter said it didn't really change her view of him because "he was hot".

Also, this is Edward's thoughts the first time he breaks into her room to watch her sleep:

"I tried the window, and it was not locked, though it stuck due to long disuse. I slid it slowly aside, cringing at each faint groan of the metal frame. I would have to find some oil for next time... I wanted very much to go read the titles of her books and CDs, but I'd promised myself that I would keep my distance; instead, I went to sit in the old rocking chair in the far corner of the room."

And it's fine, because their luv is so twu.

EDIT: This bit also has the line of glorious, hilarious creep: "Always watching her, I began to plot." THIS IS THE SORT OF THING THAT MAKES ME LAUGH ABOUT TWILIGHT.
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragon King View Post
"I wanted very much to go read the titles of her books and CDs, but I'd promised myself that I would keep my distance..."
After he breaks into her room. Way to keep your distance, pal! *snort*

I'm not surprised that younger fans don't pick up on the creep factor immediately. Like I said, those kind of dubious consent subtexts are everywhere: in our music, movies, books... it's portrayed as "normal" in more than just Twilight books. And teens reading to be entertained aren't going to take off their culture goggles and look at subtexts dispassionately. That's all the more reason for adults to be beside them, asking "Isn't that a little weird? Didn't she say no? What do you think? Should a guy keep pushing even when she's pushing him away? What about where she stops fighting... did that mean she wanted it?" Reading more deeply and analyzing what you read is an important skill, and teens are at the right age to start learning it.
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Last edited by HoiLei; 12-27-2010 at 09:50 AM.. Reason: clarify a point.
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  #97  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:01 AM
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Which is mainly what I'm pushing for. It's just what I can't stand is parents who are going "oh, at least they're reading". Yes, but at least make sure it's appropriate and not UBER CREEPY. I'm fine with reading it, mainly because it hilarious in many ways (the creep, the writing...). I just don't think it's appropriate for the kids who read it unsupervised.
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:07 AM
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That makes sense. "Oh, at least they're reading" isn't very good if they're not also thinking.
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:12 AM
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Honestly, I couldn't get through the books. Although a few years ago I probably would have made myself read them. As most of you already know, I am a huge fan of the vampire/urban fantasy genre, and have forgiven much piss poor writing in the past because of that. Then I decided, about 6 years ago or so, that by doing that I was part of the problem (the problem being why is there so much crap in the genre) - and decided to stop. If we fans don't read the crap, maybe the whole genre will get better. Of course its difficult to tell if a book you just picked up will be crap. Thats why god invented libraries. Try before you buy!

But I digress. Besides finding the writing immature for my tastes, I really really hate the idea of vampires without any real vulnerabilities. The extreme sunlight allergy and desperate blood addiction making even "good" vampires risk murder is something that has always intrigued me. Sparkling deer hunters just dont hold the same dark interest.

And thats my 2p
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:49 AM
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You know what's the worst, even worse than a teenage girl being obsessed with Twilight? An adult being obsessed with Twilight, and not seeing the creepiness at all. A person who can literally sit through an entire Twilight movie and not cringe once because of how stalkerish everything is.

Especially in the third movie. It's just all bad. I went to see it with my best friend and my mom, and my mom was sitting there totally engrossed, while my friend and I were struggling not to laugh while Edward warned Bella to stay away from Jacob because they didn't like each other. Oh, and you know what he does to make sure she doesn't go visit her werewolf best friend? He takes the engine out of her truck. If that's not an abusive relationship, I don't know what is.
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  #101  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by HoiLei View Post
Like I said, those kind of dubious consent subtexts are everywhere: in our music, movies, books... it's portrayed as "normal" in more than just Twilight books. And teens reading to be entertained aren't going to take off their culture goggles and look at subtexts dispassionately.

Yeah, there's an Eminem song where they fight and get violent and they're on again - off again. In the end, he says if she ever tries to F-ing leave him again, he's gonna tie her to the bed and burn the house down.

The kids like it, 'cause it's "catchy."

Maybe some people think I censor too much, but I don't allow that music in my home (mind you, that is despite the fact that I really like Eminem - but this song is off limits for me and my kids because it's just too messed up). I did, however, use it as a way to bring up that conversation with my kids. I have done everything I can to make sure my kids are aware of the behaviors that lead to those types of abusive relationships.
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  #102  
Old 12-27-2010, 01:33 PM
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To be honest at this point I just don't want to hear about it. Why can't the vampires go back into their nice, satin lined coffins and the werewolves back into Crystal Lake woods? I really just want the fantasy section of the bookstore to not be littered with millions of vampire novellas. They are both great but much like zombies they are over saturated and a fade in literature and movies. Would it kill someone to come out with a book about youkai or some other mythos?
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Silphie View Post
Would it kill someone to come out with a book about youkai or some other mythos?
You do it! You'll be a bazillionairre, and everyone will want to copycat you.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Gwyndolin View Post
You do it! You'll be a bazillionairre, and everyone will want to copycat you.
Actually in most my fantasy books I use all mythology from around the world. It's pretty fun. Mostly cultures have the same basic creatures. Water nymphs who drown men, beautiful women who eat wayward married men, and women who can transform to yet again kill men.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:45 PM
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There seems to be a running theme here.

Personally, I'm a fan of Norse Mythology, as some of you may know. If I could choose to have a religious belief, that would be it
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HoiLei View Post
Anyway, though that excerpt didn't sing to me with all the drama and life of great writing, it did show something very understandable to many teen girls: a guy ignoring a girl's wishes, and the girl's problems with that not being taken seriously by authority figures. Male dominant culture at its most basic, with the woman relegated to a passive role and being punished (by pain in this case) when she objects.
Stereotypical, HoiLei. It's not that what you're saying is untrue -- far from it -- but that it engenders a feeling that all males are confrontational and won't take no for an answer. I find this an affront to men who aren't like that. Contrary to what Hollywood and novels would have you believe, there are a lot of decent guys out there. So that's what I take umbrage with here.

That's not to say that what happened in the aforementioned excerpt is unrealistic. It has happened, and will continue to happen, in our society. However, novels like Twilight, which purport to suggest that it's okay to have a boyfriend who stalks you, slashes your tires, and makes you want to kill yourself if he leaves, make it seem all right provided you're in love. That's fundamentally wrong.

But let's put aside the egregious writing for a second and just take a minute to grasp the moral of the story. A teenage girl falls in love with a 100-year-old vampire. Only in fantasy could this storyline be feasible, but even that doesn't make it any less creepy. A 100-year-old vampire, who probably has been 'round the track' more times than Wilt Chamberlain, becoming intimately involved with a 17-year-old girl who's still a virgin. Sounds like a rewrite of Anna Nicole Smith and J. Howard Marshall. Yeah, Edward hasn't aged, but it's the same thing. It's just pure co-dependency. At one point Bella threatens to kill herself if Edward leaves. WTF?

I've read the first book. I don't know why. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. It's not even the writing which gets me. It's the stereotypes, and the make-me-wanna-puke luvey-duvey dialogue, and the fact that Bella is about as bright as a burst light-bulb. I mean, she's not even a role model. She's as dumb as a post. But you find out later on that it's all just a smokescreen, and that Bella Swan is actually the perfect character masquerading as a vacuous 17-year-old.

And don't get me started on the later books, where (spoiler!) she has Edward's baby (what the hell) and becomes a vampire. Do I need to say any more? Really?
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
And don't get me started on the later books, where (spoiler!) she has Edward's baby (what the hell) and becomes a vampire. Do I need to say any more? Really?
But then - THEN - factor in that this same baby is destined to marry the a-hole who forced a kiss on her mother. And Bella and Edward are just like "okay, an imprint is an imprint after all..."

He wants to marry their BABY. But since she's a baby, he can't yet, so he contents himself with helping to care for her. And I suppose she'll never have a say in the matter, she'll just grow up knowing that she's going to marry Jacob someday. He's seventeen at this point, I think. And she's a newborn. It's sick. It's just as sick as Bella, the seventeen year old wanting to marry 100 year old Edward.

But it's all okay, cause, you know, Jacob's HOT!

So, once again, I'll say this. A teenage girl will like what a teenage girl likes. And if her mom tells her not to like it, well, her mom is too old to understand. She doesn't get what it's like to be a teenager today, so what would she know anyway?

So, I still maintain that I don't think we should try and convince the teenage girls about how awful the books are, because with all of my above comments, I still think the books are entertaining. And we will never convince young girls that the books are somehow bad. They will have to decide that for themselves. But we should take the opportunity to teach them the lessons that the books offer. A lot of the relationships in these books are very realistic. This is what abusive relationships really look like. So, we can show our kids some of the warning signs. Maybe we can teach them how to spot this crap early.
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:18 PM
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Can I just interject that if Edward's body fluids are venom shouldn't unprotected sex turn her into a vampire? Continuity bitch, continuity.

Also sex with a popsicle... ugh.
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:29 PM
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Don't forget, the aforementioned half-vampire love child also grows at an extremely fast rate, and then stops aging at 17. Isn't that great? So over the course of like three years or less, she'll go from being an infant to being a perpetual 17 year-old. That way Jacob can get married to her really soon. Oh, and Jacob doesn't age either, because he's a werewolf. Isn't that convenient? It all ends happily ever after with lots of undead, never-aging couples getting married and having miracle babies.
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:52 PM
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The whole thing really is like a bad fanfiction. When I read the fourth book I had serious deja vu. I'd read a few bad fanfics on how the story was to end. It pretty much ended the same way. People tell me all the time that Meyer was just a house wife and not a serious writer but so were many writers. Some are born to play basketball and some have no depth perception. Some are born to create music and others are tone deaf. Some are born to spin words while others can't construct or annunciate.
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:12 PM
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It really is though. I've heard a lot of people say that the entire Twilight series is just Meyer's little fantasy world put on paper.
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:53 PM
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Most stories are the author's fantasy but there is a difference in "fantasy" and "0MG i want a vam1pr3 boifriend."
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by HoiLei View Post
So Jacob kissed her? I thought it was Edward.

Anyway, though that excerpt didn't sing to me with all the drama and life of great writing, it did show something very understandable to many teen girls: a guy ignoring a girl's wishes, and the girl's problems with that not being taken seriously by authority figures. Male dominant culture at its most basic, with the woman relegated to a passive role and being punished (by pain in this case) when she objects.

Now, if the book tells young girls that this is normal and right, that's a problem. If it makes them mad because they know it's not right, that's an awareness-raiser. Oftentimes, as a previous poster mentioned, parents can take the opportunity to talk to kids about those issues. Ask them what they think, and help them see the underlying message. Talk about how these "scripts" work or don't work in relationships. Talk to guys about how the "keep pushing and you'll get her" advice can be downright wrong, and make sure all your kids know that no means no.

If parents step up, then long after those kids grow out of Twilight, they'll remember the lesson they learned about reading critically. Maybe they'll start to see how the same consent issues play out in romantic comedies, (where guys often engage in stalkerish behavior and ignore noes, and it all works out because they were "meant for each other") or romance novels (where a forced kiss usually leads to the heroine suddenly melting and spreading her legs because, hey, Randy MacRogue is a damn sexy pirate).
I like this post. It's reaoned and thoughtful in its consideration of the elements in the books that people disagree with and dislike.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Gwyndolin View Post
So, I still maintain that I don't think we should try and convince the teenage girls about how awful the books are, because with all of my above comments, I still think the books are entertaining. And we will never convince young girls that the books are somehow bad. They will have to decide that for themselves. But we should take the opportunity to teach them the lessons that the books offer. A lot of the relationships in these books are very realistic. This is what abusive relationships really look like. So, we can show our kids some of the warning signs. Maybe we can teach them how to spot this crap early.
Solid reasoning here and that the books contain issues parents can use as teaching material for their kids, i.e. about relationships in society in general, albeit negative issues according to the posters in this thread, then that can only ever be a good thing.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
But let's put aside the egregious writing for a second...
I'm curious about this. What is it about the writing that you consider "egregious"? And can you post examples as illustrations please.

egregious - outrageous; notorious; prominent; distinguished; (standing out from the herd - root = from e out of, and grex, gregis a herd). (Chambers Dictionary definition).
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:17 AM
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Egregious - outstandingly bad; shocking (Concise Oxford English dictionary).

"Shh!" he shushed me. (I think we can infer that from the 'shh' part.)

Oro started to laugh. "Ha, ha, ha," he chuckled.
(That's three times in two sentences that Meyer tells me Oro is laughing. I know what laughter sounds like. I don't need the phoneticism.

I closed the door, slamming it really. (Huh? Is there a missing word here, or does Meyer think this is actually good writing?)

Finding the school wasn't difficult, though I'd never been there before. The school was large . . . (Whatever happened to 'it'? She does this several times throughout the novel -- repeating things that aren't necessary.

Charlie had really been fairly nice about the whole thing. (Two adverbs that do nothing for this sentence. And who calls their father by his first name?)

He seemed genuinely pleased that I was coming to live with him for the first time with any degree of permanence. (This is just horribly constructed.)

Neither of us was what anyone would call verbose, and I didn't know what there was to say regardless. (This is one of the most woeful sentence constructions I've ever read.)

Most of my Arizona clothes were too permeable for Washington. (They allowed liquid or gas to pass through them, did they? What a brilliant way to say that!)

It was beautiful, of course; I couldn't deny that. Everything was green: the trees, their trunks covered with moss, their branches hanging with a canopy of it, the ground covered with ferns. Even the air filtered down greenly through the leaves. (Where do I even begin to start? What the hell is a 'canopy' of moss? Moss doesn't cling to branches. It clings to the stalk of a tree. An example of Ms Meyer trying to sound like she knows what she's talking about, when in actual fact she's making herself look like the plank she is. And how the hell does air filter 'greenly' through the leaves? What does that even mean?

There, parked on the street in front of the house that never changed, was my new -- well, new to me -- truck. It was a faded red colour, with big, rounded fenders and a bulbous cab. ("It was a faded red colour". That reads like something a child would write. There are a million better ways to tell this, never mind show it. It's just lazy, seriously lazy, writing. A what, pray tell, is a 'bulbous cab'? A round or bulging cab? Huh? You can't seriously tell me that's good writing.

And that's only the first couple of pages. There are 400-odd pages more of this.
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:01 AM
CandraH
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Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Egregious - outstandingly bad; shocking (Concise Oxford English dictionary).

"Shh!" he shushed me. (I think we can infer that from the 'shh' part.)

Oro started to laugh. "Ha, ha, ha," he chuckled. (That's three times in two sentences that Meyer tells me Oro is laughing. I know what laughter sounds like. I don't need the phoneticism.

I closed the door, slamming it really. (Huh? Is there a missing word here, or does Meyer think this is actually good writing?)

Finding the school wasn't difficult, though I'd never been there before. The school was large . . . (Whatever happened to 'it'? She does this several times throughout the novel -- repeating things that aren't necessary.

Charlie had really been fairly nice about the whole thing. (Two adverbs that do nothing for this sentence. And who calls their father by his first name?)

He seemed genuinely pleased that I was coming to live with him for the first time with any degree of permanence. (This is just horribly constructed.)

Neither of us was what anyone would call verbose, and I didn't know what there was to say regardless. (This is one of the most woeful sentence constructions I've ever read.)

Most of my Arizona clothes were too permeable for Washington. (They allowed liquid or gas to pass through them, did they? What a brilliant way to say that!)

It was beautiful, of course; I couldn't deny that. Everything was green: the trees, their trunks covered with moss, their branches hanging with a canopy of it, the ground covered with ferns. Even the air filtered down greenly through the leaves. (Where do I even begin to start? What the hell is a 'canopy' of moss? Moss doesn't cling to branches. It clings to the stalk of a tree. An example of Ms Meyer trying to sound like she knows what she's talking about, when in actual fact she's making herself look like the plank she is. And how the hell does air filter 'greenly' through the leaves? What does that even mean?

There, parked on the street in front of the house that never changed, was my new -- well, new to me -- truck. It was a faded red colour, with big, rounded fenders and a bulbous cab. ("It was a faded red colour". That reads like something a child would write. There are a million better ways to tell this, never mind show it. It's just lazy, seriously lazy, writing. A what, pray tell, is a 'bulbous cab'? A round or bulging cab? Huh? You can't seriously tell me that's good writing.

And that's only the first couple of pages. There are 400-odd pages more of this.
I'm not really seeing the terribly shocking writing here that you seem to think is so bad. Fair enough, you personally don't like it but for me, it's alright. But, maybe thats because I'm not so far up my own arse that I expect everything to be perfectly written and so completely free of errors that it reads flat, boring, and doesn't impinge on my writerly sensibilities.

Interesting about the definitions of egregious that I found online though. Looks like it's an archaic version of remarkable thats been brought back into use. So, you consider the writing in the Twilight books so bad it stands out from the herd in a literary sense?

I wonder if you're aware of this. You used the word egregious when terrible would have been the mostly widely understood description. Yet, you chose an obscure word that has a few different meanings. Did you do that to be more interesting in a literary sense or did you do it to sound more intelligent and knowledgeable about words and their meanings?

The reason I'm asking is because you slate Stephanie Meyer for using permeable in her description of Bella's clothes. You think she should have used a word that was more suited to the description she was going for rather than the obscure one she chose which has a few possible uses. Yes, permeable means a thing is able to allow a gas or liquid to pass through it, i.e. water or maybe rain. So in using it, she described Bella's Arizona clothes as being more able to let liquid pass through them, kind of like your use of the obscure word egregious about her writing in general. Something to consider maybe.

Also, I think moss can appear in canopies in certain areas of the world. Thinking about rainforests and swamps where there's high humidity and lots of close growing trees where the moss can build up. So Meyer's use of canopy, while maybe not in a perfectly structured sentence that meets your exacting standards, is okay. I also hunted around and found an image of moss hanging from trees, not just clinging to their trunks. Posted a picture below.

Personally, I thought nothing of the use of filtered greenly. If I can take an example from my own story posted earlier in this thread as a comparison, I wrote this -

"The wilderness is blinding."

Thats a physical impossibility. But because I wanted to create an image in the reader's mind of being in a frozen wilderness where the light on the ice is so bright it's blinding, I worded the sentence in order to create that. I think Meyer did the same with -

"Even the air filtered down greenly through the leaves."

I got an image in my mind of a forest so lush and verdant that even the light appeared green. Do you see? It's all relative and subjective and often a description that doesn't make sense logically or is physically impossible in the real world when analysed, can make for an interesting image in a story.

As for the description of the truck? I've seen the first two films and I'd say bulbous pretty much describes the cab of the truck to a t. A faded red colour is weak fair enough - maybe just faded red would have worked better. But I'm certainly not going to get on my literary high horse and say the writing is terrible or egregious. It's not.

One last thing. All the ranting in your above post about being so pernickety about correct writing is interesting when you yourself use things like "...[edited out]..." which should be shone from above and "...[edited out]..." which should be raised his hand. You're not perfect Daedalus. Maybe you should get off your high horse about another writer's efforts.


Last edited by Firefly; 12-29-2010 at 06:55 AM.. Reason: Edited Out Quoted Text
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:34 AM
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I've said all I need to say.

Last edited by Daedalus; 12-28-2010 at 08:49 AM..
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:11 AM
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Candra, I'm starting to think that the only reason you're here is to offend everybody who presents their opinion.

For what it's worth, I loved Daedalus' post. It showed how terrible the writing is, and bad writing is something I despise.

Also, egregious is not an obscure word. Anyone with a rich vocabulary should know simple words like that. Knowing how to use words like egregious properly, like Daedalus did, might help prevent horrible books like Twilight from being published.
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
I'm not really seeing the terribly shocking writing here that you seem to think is so bad. Fair enough, you personally don't like it but for me, it's alright. But, maybe thats because I'm not so far up my own arse that I expect everything to be perfectly written and so completely free of errors that it reads flat, boring, and doesn't impinge on my writerly sensibilities.
He's not up his own arse. That's unfair. He's pointing out redundancies and inaccuracies to justify saying that SM is a lazy writer, and I agree with him. Aiming for concision and precision won't make for a flat and boring read; the opposite is true.

I can understand people liking her books despite the writing, or even without noticing it, but a writer--you--whose standards are so low they'll settle for it? A shame.
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