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What Are Your Flaws?

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  #31  
Old 08-25-2018, 03:59 PM
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Well, since the purpose of getting your ducks in line is to shoot them (line 'em up right, and see how many you can take out in one shot), when I begin it's more likely to be, "Quack, squawk! And then just splashing sounds.

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  #32  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
I had a mother like that. My sympathies.
But I can't imagine a six year old physically removing a full grown woman.
Went from 6-14- my sister left at 18.

In unnecessary detail and filling in blanks- early years I thought it was normal. I objected around 10. I lost my temper around 12. I think?

Edit: But, actually, sod it, my sister is quite head-fast and a sulker, whereas I am quick to anger if someone annoys me. I do not mean to describe my sister's behaviour as any sort of an excuse for my mother's actions, because there are none, but... My mother was deeply unpleasant, but she never got a reaction from my sister and she used to push for one. Strangely my mother did not drink at all or anything else, she was just fundamentally a tosser. She was a control freak and a passive-aggressive piece of shit when my old man was around. She controlled my old man, she wanted to control us, she felt some deep hurt that she had not done better in life despite the fact my old man had done everything for her and she had done nothing. She was deeply unpleasant.

She still is... but a very changed person now.

I knew she used to get angry at my sister. My sister used to tell me she punched her body and specifically told her it was so that my dad would not find out (of course the weak fucker must have known).

I think I was about ten when I first grabbed my mother by the hair and dragged her off my sister, but it was more a terrified act, I did not want to see my sister hurt anymore. I think I was about twelve when I first truly lost my temper and had my mother against the wall by her throat, yet I was young enough to be manipulated and the tables were turned (haha). I think I was 13 when I made it clear that if she touched my sister again I would do everything I could to ensure she was incapable of it.

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  #33  
Old 08-26-2018, 12:06 AM
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Your sister was and is lucky to have you.

You could be describing my parents. I grew up in an era when raising children was "women's work" and the boundary between discipline and abuse not so clear cut as it is today. That doesn't excuse what happened, but I came to terms with it as a way of protecting myself from corrosive bitterness.

Some years ago I discovered there is such a thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it perfectly describes my mother. Basically a mother with this syndrome is incapable of loving anyone, and sees her children as mere extensions of herself. She doesn't see her offspring as people with feelings and desires of their own, and any expression of their independence can send her into a murderous rage. This explains the cruelty, the mind games and manipulation that doesn't just stop when you grow up.

There still remains a taboo about discussing mother abuse, even in these more enlightened times. It was such a relief to find others had suffered the same way, that other families had this dark shameful secret.
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  #34  
Old 08-26-2018, 01:17 AM
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("...my flaws are to be found on dance floors..." confided the goblin, adding "...for out pops my vanity, my narcissism, and my indifference too...")
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  #35  
Old 08-26-2018, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
Your sister was and is lucky to have you.

You could be describing my parents. I grew up in an era when raising children was "women's work" and the boundary between discipline and abuse not so clear cut as it is today. That doesn't excuse what happened, but I came to terms with it as a way of protecting myself from corrosive bitterness.

Some years ago I discovered there is such a thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it perfectly describes my mother. Basically a mother with this syndrome is incapable of loving anyone, and sees her children as mere extensions of herself. She doesn't see her offspring as people with feelings and desires of their own, and any expression of their independence can send her into a murderous rage. This explains the cruelty, the mind games and manipulation that doesn't just stop when you grow up.

There still remains a taboo about discussing mother abuse, even in these more enlightened times. It was such a relief to find others had suffered the same way, that other families had this dark shameful secret.
haha, Narcissistic Personality Disorder- we both went through the same jaw-drop moment.
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  #36  
Old 08-26-2018, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
Your sister was and is lucky to have you.

You could be describing my parents. I grew up in an era when raising children was "women's work" and the boundary between discipline and abuse not so clear cut as it is today. That doesn't excuse what happened, but I came to terms with it as a way of protecting myself from corrosive bitterness.

Some years ago I discovered there is such a thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it perfectly describes my mother. Basically a mother with this syndrome is incapable of loving anyone, and sees her children as mere extensions of herself. She doesn't see her offspring as people with feelings and desires of their own, and any expression of their independence can send her into a murderous rage. This explains the cruelty, the mind games and manipulation that doesn't just stop when you grow up.

There still remains a taboo about discussing mother abuse, even in these more enlightened times. It was such a relief to find others had suffered the same way, that other families had this dark shameful secret.
Do you ever extend that back and think of the context she was brought up in?
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  #37  
Old 08-26-2018, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by fleamailman View Post
("...my flaws are to be found on dance floors..." confided the goblin, adding "...for out pops my vanity, my narcissism, and my indifference too...")
ffs enjoy your dancing, itís a good thing to do, it isnít about showing off really is it? The beat gets you in the core and lightens your spirit and itís great when others are feeling the freedom of it, the release. Its lovely to watch folk at one with themselves. Shrug.
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  #38  
Old 08-26-2018, 02:21 AM
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my fucking flaw - can’t keep my mouth shut - punch up at disco
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  #39  
Old 08-26-2018, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by anna View Post
Do you ever extend that back and think of the context she was brought up in?

I mean the idea is that these freaks were born fucking evil where the chances are that most likely they suffered at the hands of someone or some thinking, or in a climate, whatever. Yes, some really are malign and that can be traced back too. Shrugs again.

Last edited by anna; 08-26-2018 at 05:13 AM..
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  #40  
Old 08-26-2018, 03:22 AM
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Allow me. She is in such a weird place of feeble old woman denial now that I find it hard to confront her. My sister has nothing to do with her or my old man.

She (my mother) was abused by her mother as a child. This idea that abuse perpetuates through generations is some feeble arse-hattery. I do not buy it for a second. My sister is not abusive.

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  #41  
Old 08-26-2018, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
Allow me. She is in such a weird place of feeble old woman denial now that I find it hard to confront her. My sister has nothing to do with her or my old man.

She (my mother) was abused by her mother as a child. This idea that abuse perpetuates through generations is some feeble arse-hattery. I do not buy it for a second. My sister is not abusive.
Why would you want to confront a feeble old woman who herself was abused as a child, good for your sister. That would simply tar you with the same brush - do you think punishing her (and him) will make it right for you, it will just leave you ill to yourself.

Abuse does perpetuate if your dna is such or you lack insight, or are deeply damaged - folks are far more aware today that cycles of unhealthy behaviour can repeat, and in that context of recognition FT is in a good place.

So if you chastise a deeply fucked up woman for beating up her child what do you think she will do to him a week down the line - make a cake and smother him with kisses, nah prolly beat the shit out of him with double the vengeance.

Education.

Last edited by anna; 08-26-2018 at 06:44 AM..
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  #42  
Old 08-26-2018, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by anna View Post
Why would you want to confront a feeble old woman who herself was abused as a child, good for your sister and old man. That would simply tar you with the same brush - do you think punishing her will make it right for you, it will just leave you ill to yourself.

Abuse does perpetuate if your dna is such or you lack insight, or are deeply damaged - folks are far more aware today that cycles of unhealthy behaviour can repeat, and in that context of recognition FT is in a good place.

So if you chastise a deeply fucked up woman for beating up her child what do you think she will do to him a week down the line - make a cake and smother him with kisses, nah prolly beat the shit out of him with double the vengeance.

Education.
I don't, I visit every so often. My sister has a lot of unresolved anger. I do not know how she resolves it before they pop their clogs.

Your second paragraph, I agree entirely, if you have a propensity to abuse, you probably pass it on. But honestly, most bad behaviour is born from freedom from repercussions. When my mother realised there were potential repercussions she miraculously stopped- funny that.
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  #43  
Old 08-26-2018, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
I don't, I visit every so often. My sister has a lot of unresolved anger. I do not know how she resolves it before they pop their clogs.

Your second paragraph, I agree entirely, if you have a propensity to abuse, you probably pass it on. But honestly, most bad behaviour is born from freedom from repercussions. When my mother realised there were potential repercussions she miraculously stopped- funny that.
forgive my bullshit if it is offensive, maybe this is all high jinx to you - whatever

Your sisterís unresolved anger doesnít belong to you, confronting them wonít resolve it like some magic bullet but she might gain closure upon their death if sheís done the inner work, nothing wrong with owning the angst neither, it comes it goes.

Ďmost bad behaviourí we donít know really do we? some certainly, ignorance too prolly. If you worked in a hospice do you think you would find that people reflect upon repercussions of their behavior ... how many folks die vengeful - human frailty, all pretty flawed and fucked up.
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  #44  
Old 08-26-2018, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by anna View Post
forgive my bullshit if it is offensive, maybe this is all high jinx to you - whatever

Your sisterís unresolved anger doesnít belong to you, confronting them wonít resolve it like some magic bullet but she might gain closure upon their death if sheís done the inner work, nothing wrong with owning the angst neither, it comes it goes.

Ďmost bad behaviourí we donít know really do we? some certainly, ignorance too prolly. If you worked in a hospice do you think you would find that people reflect upon repercussions of their behavior ... how many folks die vengeful - human frailty, all pretty flawed and fucked up.
Yeah, I laugh about most things- actually this as well, so fair point.

I have no interest in confronting them. My sister has no relationship with them, I would like to resolve that before that option is closed, which is perhaps 5 years away, realistically. It may or not be my place to facilitate that. My mother was abusive to me, but far less so.

Yes, I agree that anecdotal evidence is not worth the mouth that spoke it. I agree with all the logical flaws you can throw at me, I am too close to judge. My comment was intended as anecdotal.
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  #45  
Old 08-26-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
Yeah, I laugh about most things- actually this as well, so fair point.

I have no interest in confronting them. My sister has no relationship with them, I would like to resolve that before that option is closed, which is perhaps 5 years away, realistically. It may or not be my place to facilitate that. My mother was abusive to me, but far less so.

Yes, I agree that anecdotal evidence is not worth the mouth that spoke it. I agree with all the logical flaws you can throw at me, I am too close to judge. My comment was intended as anecdotal.
What does your mother think now?
I am assuming she suffered from some kind of disorder to have behaved in a abusive way.
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  #46  
Old 08-26-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
What does your mother think now?
I am assuming she suffered from some kind of disorder to have behaved in a abusive way.
No, she was just an arsehole, now the power dynamic has reversed and she cannot afford to be an arsehole. It is that simple.

EDIT: What does she think now? She is in denial. I will be brutally honest, I loathe her. I only see her because I love my dad. My sister sees neither of them.

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  #47  
Old 08-26-2018, 11:22 AM
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Yeah, if a person is so inclined, they will pass on abuse that is inflicted on them, but they have to start out so inclined. My brother was a sociopathic piece of shit, yet all six of us were raised in a loving environment (and with the crowds of people around our house, all the time, there was no chance that he was secretly abused), and the rest of us are fine.

Then I've seen people come out of horrific childhoods, who are loving and caring. It not what you went through, it's what you do with it, and you can only blame your parents until you're 18. After that, you're responsible for your own actions.
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
Yeah, if a person is so inclined, they will pass on abuse that is inflicted on them, but they have to start out so inclined. My brother was a sociopathic piece of shit, yet all six of us were raised in a loving environment (and with the crowds of people around our house, all the time, there was no chance that he was secretly abused), and the rest of us are fine.

Then I've seen people come out of horrific childhoods, who are loving and caring. It not what you went through, it's what you do with it, and you can only blame your parents until you're 18. After that, you're responsible for your own actions.

That's true. I think having a gift of introspection helps.
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post

Some years ago I discovered there is such a thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it perfectly describes my mother. Basically a mother with this syndrome is incapable of loving anyone, and sees her children as mere extensions of herself.

When the kids were growing up I saw this in fathers who Had to coach their son's teams - and the son would have to have a prominent spot on the team, whether he had the talent or not.



In my daughters activities I saw this with dance moms and cheerleading mom's.



It's best to let kids grow up and make their own memories, not remake our memories.
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