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higher existence and hypocrisy

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Old 04-21-2013, 07:07 AM
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Default higher existence and hypocrisy


have you ever thought of some form of higher existence?not like renunciation of this material plane and becoming an austere ascetic, but living with some higher ideals in this rut. what are your conceptions regarding this subject? another thing, will you dub yourselves as sanctimonious? after some soul-searching i found out that i do have some sort of superiority complex along the lines that i am more moral and ethical than my fellow people. and i bend whatever principles i have,according to my sweet will.in short, whatever i do, i discover some justification that it is right.how to overcome such a hypocritical tendency??and this whole "higher living" stuff, is that too a hypocrite's paradise??

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Old 04-21-2013, 07:53 AM
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Nobody is better than anyone else all each of us can do is our best in our lives. Without Yang there cannot be Yin and none of us would grow.

I personally believe that every thing in the universe is the spark of a divine but what that divine is I do not think anyone can hope to understand more than a little part. Hence every religion is right and every religion is also wrong.

Morals and ethics are relative - I write stories with gay characters and some people find that unethical whereas others will say the opposite.

As a woman in 2013 I can vote. wear a short skirt, have an education and it is now illegal for my husband to rape me.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:05 AM
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As a woman in 2013 I can vote. wear a short skirt, have an education and it is now illegal for my husband to rape me.
As it's 2013, that's also true for us blokes as well.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
As it's 2013, that's also true for us blokes as well.
That is true but as I am in Scotland men have been able to wear skirts above the ankle since the Victorian era And husbands are hopefully in the near distant future.

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Old 04-21-2013, 09:35 AM
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There's nothing more attractive than a Scotsman showing a bit of shapely ankle, imo. Except perhaps, a Scottish woman. And yes I am including Susan Boyle.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:36 AM
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Our hypocrisy seems to know no limits. Only recently Keith O'Brien the cardinal archbishop of Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh, who had been outspoken in his condemnation of homosexuality, was forced to resign after it was revealed that he had made sexual advances to various priests. We all have an image of ourselves, an idealized persona that we try to live up to; this is the persona that we portray to the World. When we fail to match up to our own ideal of ourselves, as most of us do from time to time, then we feel guilt and, if others are aware of our shortcoming, embarrassment. If we fail massively, as Keith O'Brien did, we suffer humiliation and disgrace.

Cardinal O'Brien's public exposure doesn't single him out as being any different from the rest of us, indeed in preaching a doctrine that he was himself failing to live up to he provides us with very compelling evidence of his humanity. We are all of us hypocrites in our secret moments when we have thoughts that are unworthy or remember those acts of which we have no reason to be proud. So should we be more realistic and modify our image of the perfect self? No! The more we fail the more important it is that we continue to strive for our ideal.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
There's nothing more attractive than a Scotsman showing a bit of shapely ankle, imo. Except perhaps, a Scottish woman. And yes I am including Susan Boyle.
Trouble is not all are that shapely
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:20 AM
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I think we are not doing well in the morals department.
Things might get better once we get better at communicating and leaving less room for interpretations.

Unfortunately moral is broadly understood to be a feeling related thing, not tied to facts.
Fortunately our system of justice gets it right.

Is there an objective moral map that tells us how we are doing? There are probably one hundred and most of them are fucked up.
Take the deadly sins ... what is wrong with lust, gluttony, wrath (if people mess with you) and pride? What is wrong with having fun?
I like the golden rule: your rights should not end until somebody else's rights begin.

Nobody is better than anyone else? Thoughts like that needs to vanish from our minds. Once you bully somebody, steal or lie you fall behind.

One huge problem is that people never try to understand others. They always know what is good for everybody. That is one point that society could work on ... we really still suck at tolerance.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Crump View Post
Our hypocrisy seems to know no limits. Only recently Keith O'Brien the cardinal archbishop of Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh, who had been outspoken in his condemnation of homosexuality, was forced to resign after it was revealed that he had made sexual advances to various priests. We all have an image of ourselves, an idealized persona that we try to live up to; this is the persona that we portray to the World. When we fail to match up to our own ideal of ourselves, as most of us do from time to time, then we feel guilt and, if others are aware of our shortcoming, embarrassment. If we fail massively, as Keith O'Brien did, we suffer humiliation and disgrace.

Cardinal O'Brien's public exposure doesn't single him out as being any different from the rest of us, indeed in preaching a doctrine that he was himself failing to live up to he provides us with very compelling evidence of his humanity. We are all of us hypocrites in our secret moments when we have thoughts that are unworthy or remember those acts of which we have no reason to be proud. So should we be more realistic and modify our image of the perfect self? No! The more we fail the more important it is that we continue to strive for our ideal.
we do something wrong, repent, do something wrong again, which might be a repetition, simulation or wholly new. but how long that contrition influences our thoughts and actions?we fall back to the starting point so many times. life is already this short and if we only crawl towards our ideal, then i think it falls closer to hypocrisy than self -reformist attitude.

Originally Posted by Signature View Post
I think we are not doing well in the morals department.
Things might get better once we get better at communicating and leaving less room for interpretations.

Unfortunately moral is broadly understood to be a feeling related thing, not tied to facts.
Fortunately our system of justice gets it right.

Is there an objective moral map that tells us how we are doing? There are probably one hundred and most of them are fucked up.
Take the deadly sins ... what is wrong with lust, gluttony, wrath (if people mess with you) and pride? What is wrong with having fun?
I like the golden rule: your rights should not end until somebody else's rights begin.

Nobody is better than anyone else? Thoughts like that needs to vanish from our minds. Once you bully somebody, steal or lie you fall behind.

One huge problem is that people never try to understand others. They always know what is good for everybody. That is one point that society could work on ... we really still suck at tolerance.
you are so bitter towards "objective" moral maps, but can you suggest some better alternative?though there's no denying it that people reinforcing these moral standards are hypocrites themselves.but are subjective standards ok?if that will be the way of the day then many heinous transgressions might end up seeming as trifling matters. as human beings we have yet to reach that level where we can embrace virtues unconditionally without some zealots fanaticism or holy books.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:20 AM
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I do have a superiority complex, but it was forced on me and is constantly reinforced by my encounters with my fellow man.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SadLoner View Post
have you ever thought of some form of higher existence?not like renunciation of this material plane and becoming an austere ascetic, but living with some higher ideals in this rut. what are your conceptions regarding this subject? another thing, will you dub yourselves as sanctimonious? after some soul-searching i found out that i do have some sort of superiority complex along the lines that i am more moral and ethical than my fellow people. and i bend whatever principles i have,according to my sweet will.in short, whatever i do, i discover some justification that it is right.how to overcome such a hypocritical tendency??and this whole "higher living" stuff, is that too a hypocrite's paradise??
You sound borderline sociopathic. Your false sense of moral and ethical superiority allows you to cavalierly modify the rules of conduct to suit your selfish needs.

There're a couple of ways you could go. You could do some soul-searching, decide on a set of principles and do your damndest to live by them. Or, you could continue on as you are now, but without wasting time coming up with bullshit justifications.

If you're going to be a jerk, just be a jerk.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SadLoner View Post
you are so bitter towards "objective" moral maps, but can you suggest some better alternative?though there's no denying it that people reinforcing these moral standards are hypocrites themselves.but are subjective standards ok?if that will be the way of the day then many heinous transgressions might end up seeming as trifling matters. as human beings we have yet to reach that level where we can embrace virtues unconditionally without some zealots fanaticism or holy books.
What is an objective moral?

At various time in the various cultures all manner of behaviour that we consider appalling today was acceptable.

Take Abraham for example (could be seen as the founder of three major religions):
He had a wife (his half sister) who was infertile so he took advantage of her servant and has a son. Then when his wife had a son he opted to send the servant and her child off into the desert without the benefits of servants etc. His second son grew to adulthood and he was willing to commit a human sacrifice.

Pachacouti - famous Incan leader who made flutes from arms, used his prisoners of war as drums etc

Some cultures believed eating strong enemies could give you strength.

Cleopatra was married to her brother.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Crump View Post
Our hypocrisy ....?

PLEASE DO not INCLUDE ME IN THIS !

We are all of us hypocrites in our secret moments when we have thoughts that are unworthy or remember those acts of which we have no reason to be proud. So should we be more realistic and modify our image of the perfect self? No! The more we fail the more important it is that we continue to strive for our ideal.
NOT interested in either being identified with, or forgiving those guilty of gross
betrayal to people who believed in, and trusted them.


THEY ARE CREEPS, of the first order!

Last edited by Elyzabeth; 04-25-2013 at 07:10 AM..
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:34 AM
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So you never have unworthy thoughts, and you're never anything less than perfect.

Nice to know, Lizzie.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
I do have a superiority complex, but it was forced on me and is constantly reinforced by my encounters with my fellow man.
Yeah just hanging around you makes me feel superior
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
So you never have unworthy thoughts, and you're never anything less than perfect.

Nice to know, Lizzie.
EXCUSE ME ?
Where have I said ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

I believe I spoke about betrayal and creeps
that manipulate people who trust in them.

As a writer, you might find it helpful to read what's actually written,
beginning with my name, I am Elyzabeth.

Last edited by Elyzabeth; 04-25-2013 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:17 PM
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Lizbet, I was responding to your bright red 'do not include me in this' comment.

I would suggest you're the biggest hypocrite here if you seek to dissociate yourself from Crump's observations. You've certainly demonstrated a rather tiresome tendency to sanctimony in many of your posts.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AnyaKimlun View Post
What is an objective moral?

At various time in the various cultures all manner of behaviour that we consider appalling today was acceptable.

Take Abraham for example (could be seen as the founder of three major religions):
He had a wife (his half sister) who was infertile so he took advantage of her servant and has a son. Then when his wife had a son he opted to send the servant and her child off into the desert without the benefits of servants etc. His second son grew to adulthood and he was willing to commit a human sacrifice.

Pachacouti - famous Incan leader who made flutes from arms, used his prisoners of war as drums etc

Some cultures believed eating strong enemies could give you strength.

Cleopatra was married to her brother.
i referred to whatever prescription prevalent in society at a particular point of time meant for everybody barring psychopaths of course.like some justify bloodshed in name of religion, but i am sure no faith anywhere in the world in its purest form unblemished by opportunist bigots and fanatics stands for such an act.if i am wrong in that regard, i would certainly like to be rectified.

Last edited by SadLoner; 04-27-2013 at 07:50 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Elyzabeth View Post
NOT interested in either being identified with, or forgiving those guilty of gross
betrayal to people who believed in, and trusted them.


THEY ARE CREEPS, of the first order!
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SadLoner View Post
i referred to whatever prescription prevalent in society at a particular point of time meant for everybody barring psychopaths of course.like some justify bloodshed in name of religion, but i am sure no faith anywhere in the world in its purest form unblemished by opportunist bigots and fanatics stands for such an act.if i am wrong in that regard, i would certainly like to be rectified.
Is there such a thing as pure religion ? Surely you'd need perfect human being and a perfect understanding of the divine. I don't think such a thing can exist because our brains aren't capable of a complete understanding of the diving.

Human being understand what they can and that is why every religion is wrong and every religion is right.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:33 PM
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Here, consider this - you can only ever experience the world from your perspective. You live in a dark little box and the only things connecting you to an outside world are your senses. In fact, you can never be sure if that outside world actually exists. You're only sure that your senses inform you that it does.

In that respect, only you exist, so the one moral obligation or real religion is your own creation. In that sense, you can never really be a hypocrite to yourself, because you will always form some sort of exception for yourself.

As for higher existence - you are the height of existence. You can't possibly imagine something greater than yourself or not existing because neither state originates from you.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:19 AM
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I'm horribly sanctimonious, but I keep it to myself, for the most part.
I consider myself morally better than everyone else, and as shitty as that sounds, I feel I can justify it; I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't sleep around (I don't have any vices, really), I don't lie, and I abhor cheats and cheating.
People say "everyone's human," to mean "we all make mistakes/have a dark side". To that I say: It's not bloody good enough, make an effort, you slacker. Don't justify amoral behaviour with "I'm only human!". That's a weak fucking excuse if you ask me.

The one that really gets to me is people who cheat (in relationships). I've had friends who have cheated on their partners, and partners who have cheated on me. The excuse is always "man, my animal urges just took over," or, "It's more complicated than that!"

I've got news for you: it's not more complicated than that. You gotta follow the campsite rule. If you get into a relationship with someone, you should leave them in the same, if not, a better state than they were in before. Just like if you camp somewhere over night, you don't leave your rubbish all over the ground when you leave.

Sorry, I ranted.
This is why I always choose Paladins in video games, you can't cast judgement on people in real life. Well, you can, but you can't vocalise it.


Edit: Jesus, I sound like an arsehole, but you did ask for it!
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Old 05-04-2013, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Front&Centre View Post
The one that really gets to me is people who cheat (in relationships). I've had friends who have cheated on their partners, and partners who have cheated on me. The excuse is always "man, my animal urges just took over," or, "It's more complicated than that!"
Why have partners cheated on you; was it just them, or was it something about you?
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Old 05-04-2013, 03:25 AM
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it's happened twice; the first one went to lengths to cover her arse, and then claimed she thought we were in an open relationship - so a liar too - I ended that on the spot. (this was in university BTW, so we were both young, and she was my first girlfriend/sexual partner)
The second time was a lot harder, as I was older and it was a more long-term thing. She admitted it to me all teary-eyed and apologetic, and said it was just a drunken mistake. We tried to get along like normal, but after a few weeks I wasn't really feeling it anymore and so severed ties - it was more just an understanding between the two of us than a kicking and screaming breakup.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:11 AM
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I have moments, every now and then, when I am pulled back into society by some kind of daft circumstance, during these moments everything seems purposeful and that there is some method here... but then I lose a photon and drop back to my usual lower energy state, or is that gain a photon and rise back to my higher resting state(?) and looking at The Matrix I say to myself, something along the lines of, "oh yeah, I forgot..."... but anywho, the first time I saw The Matrix was back in the day when I was offered a bank loan, everything was just a game... When I go off the top of the screen I reappear back at the bottom, photon in, photon out...
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