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Longing

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  #1  
Old 10-14-2014, 07:34 AM
simply_words (Offline)
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That half swilled can of Tennents Super
crunching against your hairy lip
reminds me
of a happy day. Brighton beach
in your Dad's battered car. Beer cans tied to the
exhaust, just because, it was fuckin' funny
to watch people pointing.

Untamed, back then,
you and I.

The cigarrette you just lit
illuminates the choking divide
between what we were
and what we are.

You bash your chubby fingers
at the TV remote
and I wonder, do you know
I'm not
really
here?

I'm out there, in '84
with your sexy blue eyes and
new leather jacket. I'm out there, in '86
screaming "yeahhhh" and joining you
on bended knee. I'm out there in '91,
looking up at you sobbing, holding little
Mikey. I'm clutching your hand at your Dad's graveside
as you finally decide you'd like to watch
a re-run of last night's snooker final.

You check your watch, sniffing and
spluttering. I know what's coming.
I'm singing in Paulo's karaoke bar in Corfu.
Now I'm watching you teach Mikey to swim in armbands.
He hates the colour.
Pink was all they had.
You stub out your last Silk Cut.

I'm even there at Mikey's funeral, alone. While you're
poisoning our dreams in a bottle.
He was my son too,
you coward.
You turn to look at me. An imposter smile.
Your stained toothy grin reminds me
how weak you are.

"Fetch me some fags from the offy, Kaz"
I stand, no point protesting.
"And some more cans!"
Outside it's cold, my breath fogs the air.
A young couple, throwing snow.
They look happy. I heard you cough.

One last time.

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Old 10-14-2014, 09:15 AM
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The writing itself is good. But there is just too much melodrama for my tastes along with obvious devices meant to wring out emotion and pull at the heartstrings, including TWO funerals -- clutching the hand at the Dad's graveside, Mikey's funeral, then the poisoned dreams in a bottle, the young couple throwing snow. Then you've got the additional layer of squalor with the used up woman, her beer and cigarettes and bad teeth etc. A lot of cliche. It's just all way too much for me -- starting with the title.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:43 AM
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I've been to five funerals since June - two of which were close family members. If I come across as melodramatic, then that's because I am.

If it's cliche to throw snow and mention the fact that you've had to bury a son...then I'm fine with that. In EZ's poem you didn't call the pill taking, leg cutting etc etc cliche. But we don't need to go there again...

Then you've got the additional layer of squalor with the used up woman, her beer and cigarettes and bad teeth etc
Not sure why you think it's the woman with the beer/cigarettes etc. It's her husband. The opening two sentences allude to 'hairy lips' and the slob of a man asks his wife to go to the shops at the end??!!.

It's just all way too much for me -- starting with the title.
I wish there were a better feature on here so that the title could be altered once listed.

So, thanks for the comments (even though all you've done is open with a half-baked compliment followed by a list of everything else that you feel is pretty shit).
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:09 AM
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Life can be pretty squalid - nothing wrong with a poem reflecting it.

I found myself wondering why Mikey died. That seems kind of pivotal, so I think it deserves to be more than just thrown out there.

I feel a lot of confusion regarding who's who, which makes it more difficult.

The MC is on a cusp, and find myself admiring him, despite the vagueness.

Last edited by Lon Palmer; 10-14-2014 at 12:04 PM..
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:33 AM
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If you don't mind melodrama or cliche, it's all good. My preference is poetry that doesn't condescend to the reader, that will allow me to use my imagination -- at least to some degree.

But here we see that someone actually needs to know HOW the child died. So there's your audience!

Last edited by JoeMatt; 10-14-2014 at 11:35 AM..
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Old 10-14-2014, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by simply_words View Post
He was my son too
This line is really loaded. It tells me the son died. It tells me of the narrator's resentment. How much more do you need?

The problem that I see is that one or even a few of the things pointed out as cliche might be fine. It is indeed the piling on of all the elements that take it over the top. For example, it is the combination of the funeral, the sobbing, the hand holding etc.

I just think it could use a drastic edit. As an exercise, cut it to the bone, perhaps to where it starts to lose meaning; and then add things back as needed. Because I would agree, as a reader, you are not giving me very much credit.

Brighton beach
in your Dad's battered car. Beer cans tied to the
exhaust, just because, it was fuckin' funny
to watch people pointing.

Untamed, back then,
you and I.
This is really quite good. More of this.

While you're
poisoning our dreams in a bottle.
A whole lot less of this.
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:40 PM
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The opening 4-5 lines are quite promising, then … to pick at it pedantically; the cans are usually tied to the bumper. The one ‘f’ word feels out of place and doesn’t really add anything to the overall image. You’re trying to sell an ‘untamed’ impression with very traditional image. That’s not working.

From then on, although there are one or two good moments, it’s downhill into your comfort zone of prose with line breaks (some of which are actually quite good). By the time you’ve reached S5 you should be crafting the emotion but there is none because it becomes muddled and unfocused and is settling for a kitchen-sink melodrama.


The poem is carrying a lot of extra baggage which is overpowering everything else.


Two points:

Write from within and write the truth.

You’re not going to create any level of emotion using cliché. Be poignant not melodramatic.






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Old 10-15-2014, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by iDrew View Post
The opening 4-5 lines are quite promising, then … to pick at it pedantically; the cans are usually tied to the bumper. The one ‘f’ word feels out of place and doesn’t really add anything to the overall image. You’re trying to sell an ‘untamed’ impression with very traditional image. That’s not working.

From then on, although there are one or two good moments, it’s downhill into your comfort zone of prose with line breaks (some of which are actually quite good). By the time you’ve reached S5 you should be crafting the emotion but there is none because it becomes muddled and unfocused and is settling for a kitchen-sink melodrama.


The poem is carrying a lot of extra baggage which is overpowering everything else.


Two points:

Write from within and write the truth.

You’re not going to create any level of emotion using cliché. Be poignant not melodramatic.
the cans are usually tied to the bumper
Surely..that's cliche?

The one ‘f’ word feels out of place
Sometimes we just pop one out...even the most the most prim and proper of us folk.
Be poignant not melodramatic.
Maybe it's an age thing? I'll start prattling about KFC and Graffiti?
Write from within and write the truth.
I have done exactly that.
By the time you’ve reached S5 you should be crafting the emotion
Says who? The poem police? That is prescriptive nonsense. I don't adhere to a set plan...and neither do you, if you look at your more recent work/s.

Chaz
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:28 AM
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Stop taking the stupid pills. You is dangerously close to an idiot overdose.*



*The font used for this post, style and colour, have been hand selected for maximum annoyance.
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Old 10-17-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by iDrew View Post
Stop taking the stupid pills. You is dangerously close to an idiot overdose.*



*The font used for this post, style and colour, have been hand selected for maximum annoyance.
Two days for that? Jees. Must. Do. Better. See me.
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:15 AM
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I like this, there is alot to it kinda meaty in details. I perfer this to some dry boring poem that hits all the so-called required marks. Very nice.
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Old 10-18-2014, 10:18 AM
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Thanks Sith, glad someone liked it...lol.

All art is subjective...but some folk on here struggle with that concept.
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Old 10-18-2014, 06:26 PM
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The people who harp in the "art is subjective" thing are usually the ones who don't like the criticism they're getting. To most people who get what this is about, it's obvious -- and it goes without saying.

Last edited by JoeMatt; 10-18-2014 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 10-19-2014, 05:40 AM
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s_w,

Consider the work of the people who don't like what you've written: cool (as in striking a pose) and tending towards understated.

Your frank, uninhibited bursts of emotion make them squirm.

Rather than try to help you develop your own voice, they try to get you to adopt theirs.

Last edited by Lon Palmer; 10-19-2014 at 05:49 AM..
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Old 10-19-2014, 05:55 AM
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Baloney. The notion that anything is making me "squirm" is hilarious.

But whatever you want to believe, Lon.

Last edited by JoeMatt; 10-19-2014 at 06:08 AM..
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:46 AM
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I think it's obvious.
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Lon Palmer View Post
I think it's obvious.
So does everyone else Lon. Except our trio who even critique each other's work with an edge of 'I'm sorry to say this', or 'I'm just saying it might be an option'.

I genuinely laugh out loud when I read some of the critiques because, being so forthright with everyone else...they seem incapable of being that way with one another. Have a read...it's hypocritical brown nosing at it's very finest.
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Old 10-19-2014, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by simply_words View Post
So does everyone else Lon. Except our trio who even critique each other's work with an edge of 'I'm sorry to say this', or 'I'm just saying it might be an option'.
An "edge" huh? What bullshit. I never qualified my comments like that. Selective reading and comprehension at it's finest.

I've had several people at once dislike something about a particular poem or story I've written. Sometimes it feels like people are ganging up, but I've been able to rise above it and see it for what it is -- that some people have similar tastes and ideas about writing.

I've had people say that something about a short story or poem is cliche. I might provide some rational as to why I approached it a certain way, but I don't get defensive about it or criticize whoever wrote the critique. And I would never embarrass myself by saying "all art is subjective." I take what I think I can use and leave the rest, and I expect that others will do the same. Pretty simple.

But different strokes... as they say.
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Old 10-19-2014, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by simply_words View Post
So does everyone else Lon. Except our trio who even critique each other's work with an edge of 'I'm sorry to say this', or 'I'm just saying it might be an option'.

I genuinely laugh out loud when I read some of the critiques because, being so forthright with everyone else...they seem incapable of being that way with one another. Have a read...it's hypocritical brown nosing at it's very finest.
I liked an expression you used earlier: the poetry police.

I think that we should be helping each other development our own unique voices rather than trying to get other people to adopt ours.
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Old 10-19-2014, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeMatt View Post
An "edge" huh? What bullshit. I never qualified my comments like that. Selective reading and comprehension at it's finest.

I've had several people at once dislike something about a particular poem or story I've written. Sometimes it feels like people are ganging up, but I've been able to rise above it and see it for what it is -- that some people have similar tastes and ideas about writing.

I've had people say that something about a short story or poem is cliche. I might provide some rational as to why I approached it a certain way, but I don't get defensive about it or criticize whoever wrote the critique. And I would never embarrass myself by saying "all art is subjective." I take what I think I can use and leave the rest, and I expect that others will do the same. Pretty simple.

But different strokes... as they say.
I counted 11 uses of the word "I" in three small paragraphs. Par for the course with you petal. "I", "I"...newflash....only your two devotees actually give a flying fuckball what you actually think.

You've described how you have felt ganged up on etc etc...bravo for you for rising above it. That's not what's happening here. If you were actually proud enough to set aside your thoughts regarding me and I posted a poem on here that blew your socks off...what would you do? EVERYONE here knows the answer to that. You would either not comment, or take the easy 'let's just pick a hole in it' route. You have the choice to do that with any piece of art...and you do it without much effort to anyone other than Aramis and Porthos.

What iDrew did to my piece above, to me, is terrible (subjection). It lost everything I was trying to convey. That is why Lon is saying what you're trying to do is alter the author's voice into one that fits your own mold...and that is why I call you prescriptive.

Just to confirm for you: I didn't embarrass myself by stating that all art is subjective. I stated it openly. It's a fact - treat is as such. Now because you cannot grasp that concept, and because you believe it must adhere to certain rules in order to make it 'better', I can see how you can judge that as embarrassing (when in fact the embarrassment was reversed - no reboundsies :-).

I feel sorry for your wife. I just know you're one of those guys who condescends so much in an argument. "Ok dear...you're right." "Stop embarassing yourself."
Errrr, shudder.

Do please now reply saying the following:
1, I used I a lot because I was talking about a direct experience [fit in protracted sarcasm ending in "Simple"].
2, You're wrong about a) b) c)
3, You shoukd toughen up a little.
4, It's nonsense that you sugar coat your critiques with Aramis and Porthos.
5, That I've misunderstood what you've written because I'm stupid.
6, You can't/shouldn't make comment on your personal life based on a judgement from a writing site.
7, That number 6 (see above), makes you a stupid person who has once again embarrassed myself.
8, That of course you would positively assess my work.

Rehash all the above. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. (oh, 9, that you're stupid for using another repetetive barb).
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by simply_words View Post
only your two devotees actually give a flying fuckball what you actually think.
And as much as you'd like to believe otherwise, I don't give a "flying fuckball" what you think.

Originally Posted by simply_words View Post
I didn't embarrass myself by stating that all art is subjective. I stated it openly. It's a fact - treat is as such.
And that's painfully obvious. It's embarrassing when you use it as a defense if a critique isn't to your liking.

Originally Posted by simply_words View Post
I feel sorry for your wife. I just know you're one of those guys who condescends so much in an argument. "Ok dear...you're right." "Stop embarassing yourself."
Errrr, shudder.
You don't KNOW shit about my relationship with my wife or how we treat each other. Leave her out of it. This is a prime example of why you cannot be taken seriously. Just more inane guesswork.

I’m way past tired of your personal bullshit and dumb grudges. Neither your poetry or your critiques are worth my time -- so there’s no reason to bother with you. Consider yourself ignored. You and Lon can build up whatever mythology around that you want.


Done.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by simply_words View Post

What iDrew did to my piece above, to me, is terrible (subjection). It lost everything I was trying to convey. That is why Lon is saying what you're trying to do is alter the author's voice into one that fits your own mold...and that is why I call you prescriptive.
I agree wholeheartedly with that analysis, and think that most people would.

Just to confirm for you: I didn't embarrass myself by stating that all art is subjective. I stated it openly. It's a fact - treat is as such.
I think that there is a subjective component to all art - which might be what you meant. I also think that there is also an objective side to it.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeMatt View Post
Neither your poetry or your critiques are worth my time -- so there’s no reason to bother with you. Consider yourself ignored. You and Lon can build up whatever mythology around that you want.


Done.

That works for me.

Too bad that you'll repeat the pattern on future unsuspecting members.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:37 AM
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Hit a nerve did I sweetie?

Yup. Thought so. It's always a sign of weak person that can't argue a point without getting into a whack.

You don't KNOW shit about my relationship with my wife or how we treat each other. Leave her out of it. This is a prime example of why you cannot be taken seriously. Just more inane guesswork.
I did use italics when I said I know...that usually denotes sarcasm. Sorry you missed that, it seems to happen a lot? I also pre-empted that you would call me inane...blah, blah.

Consider yourself ignored. You and Lon can build up whatever mythology around that you want.
Ha ha. You think I care that I'm now 'ignored'? It was obviously coming. As Lon pointed out, I make you squirm. No doubt you'll continue to throw down your prescriptive bullshit onto newbies, and no doubt you, EZ and ID will continue to say "Hey, nice read" to one another. Just know this...it's a soap opera to hundreds of members (and bloody amusing to boot).

Neither your poetry or your critiques are worth my time
True colours much? You see anything different to your ideology as not worth your time...because you're that talented and that retented. Astounding. Truly astounding. I'll not miss your critiques, because, quite simply you've never actually given me anything to go on.

I'll just get on with writing my crappy poetry then.
Suburban blues, No. Seven.
ROFLMFAO

Equally done.
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by simply_words View Post
If you were actually proud enough to set aside your thoughts regarding me and I posted a poem on here that blew your socks off...what would you do?
Would that be before or after he got over the shock?
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:58 AM
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Would that be before or after he got over the shock?
Well looky who it is...

You were ignorning me, remember? It's been a few days since you stated that...but I'm sure that's what you said. Hmmm.

Now for the matter in hand:

In two posts...you've actually both managed to prove my point (not that it needed much proving really).

You both (and iDrew) grease one another and assume you're better than others. It's painstakingly obvious, and comments saying that I can't possibly write something that would blow your socks off is a telling factor of what you both think of yourselves.

Nothing more needs saying really...I guess I'm not qualified.

You should spend less time dovetailing JoeMatt and more time fixing up the massive grammatical errors in your poetry. If you read your posts properly before you post...it may save you some time.

I await your next masterpiece with bated breath. BUT, if it's not up to par...don't you worry. You've got a at least iTwo legends who will fellate your lyrical ego.
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:09 AM
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Let's see; I choose 3, 4 and 5 off the above list.

Thanks for making that easy!
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:28 AM
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Weak and limited response...again, pretty much standard given recent posts. If you can't put the time into creativity I really wouldn't bother. Although...thanks for taking the extra time to read my list in detail. Much appreciated.
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:41 AM
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You are welcome. If it’s okay, I’m going to keep a copy of the list on hand for any future conversations we might have.

Cheers!
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Old 10-19-2014, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by simply_words View Post

What iDrew did to my piece above, to me, is terrible (subjection). It lost everything I was trying to convey. That is why Lon is saying what you're trying to do is alter the author's voice into one that fits your own mold...and that is why I call you prescriptive.


But I haven’t done anything! I offered up, in all good faith, a brief overview. It was not a detailed critiqué but had balance, in that I offered a couple of good points. The vehicle of this poem is emotion, I read nothing that was heartfelt or meaningfully touching and so voiced my opinion as such as well as even venturing a couple of ways to try and remedy, what I see, as the problem. Take it or leave it, no probs to me it ain’t my poem, just don’t be such a drama queen.

Here’s the litmus test: lock this poem, as is, in a drawer and come back to it in six months or so time. You will then see that WPC Drew wasn’t too far wrong on key elements. And that’s a fun fact.

For your info, I’ve worked for about six years creating a unique voice and image, which has been recognised by many, many editors. Why then would I try to create clones? You seem a well balanced person, in so much as you’ve got a chip on both shoulders, but you need to lay off the S-pills and give us all a break from yer boo hoo nonsense.
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