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All Men Are Created Equal?

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  #31  
Old 07-11-2018, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
what is the difference ?


E Zamora is going down the CB rabbit hole. I’d stay out of that, lest you get sucked in. A few weeks ago I got sucked down a Lil Tay rabbit hole on YouTube. That’s a couple hours I won’t get back.

To get back on track... like I said, “all men are created equal” has become the basis of western legal philosophy. It is a cornerstone of modern liberal democracy, where all men (and women) are considered equal under the law. I realize that when it was written all “black” men (and others) were not treated as equal under the law, but they are now. In practice, it’s still not a perfect system and we need to continue to make strides in that direction, but it is still a pillar in the world as far as legal systems go.

There will always be problems with any system or hierarchy. They should be scrutinized and adjusted constantly. This is part of the value of the left vs right struggle. Both sides are necessary.

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  #32  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:08 PM
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No. I get it. Some people will say just about anything to string you along or get in the last word. They don't even seem to care if they're contradicting themselves or if it makes any sense...

Last edited by E. Zamora; 07-11-2018 at 07:24 PM..
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  #33  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
No. I get it. Some people will say just about anything to string you along or get in the last word. They don't even seem to care if they're contradicting themselves or if it makes any sense...


Google Lil Tay if you fancy a good rabbit hole.
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  #34  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Google Lil Tay if you fancy a good rabbit hole.
My instincts lead me resist and argue against notions about the decline of civilization; and then I see something like this.
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  #35  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
My instincts lead me resist and argue against notions about the decline of civilization; and then I see something like this.


Don’t worry. It’s just the stupid people.



😟😟😟
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  #36  
Old 07-13-2018, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
No. I get it. Some people will say just about anything to string you along or get in the last word. They don't even seem to care if they're contradicting themselves or if it makes any sense...
The question was again:
what is the difference between machismo and masculinity?
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  #37  
Old 07-14-2018, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
The question was again:
what is the difference between machismo and masculinity?

to me:
Machismo: Open shirts, flashy jewelry (necklaces, et al ) a strutting attitude - a lot of peacocking.



Masculinity: A man acting as a man should
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  #38  
Old 07-16-2018, 04:50 AM
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Are all men created equally?

Are all women ...
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  #39  
Old 07-16-2018, 02:51 PM
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Well, some people are definitely more equal than others.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
E Zamora is going down the CB rabbit hole. I’d stay out of that, lest you get sucked in. A few weeks ago I got sucked down a Lil Tay rabbit hole on YouTube. That’s a couple hours I won’t get back.

To get back on track... like I said, “all men are created equal” has become the basis of western legal philosophy. It is a cornerstone of modern liberal democracy, where all men (and women) are considered equal under the law. I realize that when it was written all “black” men (and others) were not treated as equal under the law, but they are now. In practice, it’s still not a perfect system and we need to continue to make strides in that direction, but it is still a pillar in the world as far as legal systems go.

There will always be problems with any system or hierarchy. They should be scrutinized and adjusted constantly. This is part of the value of the left vs right struggle. Both sides are necessary.
I get it but what about the middle bit?
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  #41  
Old 07-16-2018, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Are all men created equally?

Are all women ...
not created equally?!
that is just a pure guess.
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  #42  
Old 07-16-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
Well, some people are definitely more equal than others.


Really? Who? I mean, aside from me of course.
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  #43  
Old 07-20-2018, 06:29 PM
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Well, I will get into this. Equality is a fun subject, because (outside the legal process, which Brian mentions) there are two alternatives for equality that we can strive for: -

1) Equality of opportunity
2) Equality of outcome

I imagine the vast majority of people advocate 1). It is interesting to know how many people advocate 2).
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
Well, I will get into this. Equality is a fun subject, because (outside the legal process, which Brian mentions) there are two alternatives for equality that we can strive for: -

1) Equality of opportunity
2) Equality of outcome

I imagine the vast majority of people advocate 1). It is interesting to know how many people advocate 2).


Advocating #2 would make a person a Marxist, or socialist. Those fuckers should read Gulag Archipelago.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:13 AM
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All men are created differently, unequally with different qualities and abilities.



The same can be said for all women.



If you look objectively, there probably hasn't ever been a time when "all men are equal under the law", regardless of what people are taught on the subject.
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  #46  
Old 07-22-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
All men are created differently, unequally with different qualities and abilities.



The same can be said for all women.



If you look objectively, there probably hasn't ever been a time when "all men are equal under the law", regardless of what people are taught on the subject.


This is all true, but the philosophy is still the same. The standard (legally) is that we are all equal under the eyes of the law. It’s really a simple and brilliant idea for producing a productive and stable society/culture.

The legal system in practice will always be corrupt because humans and hierarchies of humans are corruptible, more at sometimes and places, less at others, but on the whole it works.

As soon as you remove any one person or group from this umbrella we’re eventually fucked. That’s not to say that they’re aren’t individuals who avoid prosecution (above the law), or people who are prosecuted and punished unjustly, but like I said, systems will always be corrupt and corruptible. This is the reason for the two party political system and the checks and balances in the form of branches of government. Both sides (and there could be more parties like in a parliamentary system), serve to check the other, and their adherents line up according to their natural proclivities psychologically.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:07 AM
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What if you think that the system is rife with corruption?
Or that there really isn't much difference between Republicans and Democrats (government grows stronger regardless of who is in power)


And do we really have a constitutional system of checks and balances, or is this something that isn't in the charter, but has been brought into play through other sources? Were checks and balances (and a strong executive branch and a strong judicial branch) something in the Federalist papers, and not directly mentioned in the Constitution?



You will find a separation of powers, but not a direct mention of checks and balances?



If you read the constitution, would you find that: (???)



1. Most of the ink, and vested powers are in the legislature (House and Senate)?


2. After the Senate, 2nd most ink and powers are in the executive branch.


3. Very little ink, and listed power is give to the judicial branch? for example, the constitution only calls for a supreme (not capitalized) court, and then an lower court as seen fit.
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  #48  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:44 AM
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The system IS rife with corruption, but the danger in just overthrowing it or abolishing it is that you have to create another hierarchy that is also corrupt and corruptible to enforce or undertake the operation.

So, we start by admitting that all hierarchies are corrupting and corruptible, and constantly stay vigilant to root it out as individual cases come up, using the legal standards.

Life is hard. People don’t all agree. There will always be political fighting. It’s never going to get easier.

The fact that a large percentage of the population feels like dems and pubs are both the same crappy party now gets someone like Trump elected.
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Old 08-04-2018, 12:32 PM
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This post has been removed by staff --

Last edited by Mohican; 08-04-2018 at 01:22 PM..
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Old 08-07-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
This post has been removed by staff --
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  #51  
Old 08-07-2018, 09:57 AM
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That quote was part of the famous Gettysburg address by Abraham Lincoln. It was supposed to mean that everyone, regardless of their skin color is equal.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DwayneA View Post
That quote was part of the famous Gettysburg address by Abraham Lincoln. It was supposed to mean that everyone, regardless of their skin color is equal.
Brian's explanation was most correct. It had nothing to do with skin color, race gender, religion, or anything else. It's equal protection under the law. Whatever we say one's rights and protections are in the legal system is the same for everyone.

Last edited by spshane; 08-07-2018 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DwayneA View Post
That quote was part of the famous Gettysburg address by Abraham Lincoln. It was supposed to mean that everyone, regardless of their skin color is equal.
Yes but that is stating the obvious. Everyone is born to be different and everyone is born free ultimately.
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  #54  
Old 08-07-2018, 12:17 PM
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Equal protection is an ideal, and it sounds good, doesn't it?

But anyone who's had exposure to the underbelly of the legal system knows that there are basically two systems; one for people who have money and another for people who don't...
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
Yes but that is stating the obvious. Everyone is born to be different and everyone is born free ultimately.


Not politically and culturally
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Not politically and culturally
The only thing that drives a wedge between one individual and another is money.
That is the only divider that makes you and me unequal.
Life has given us a platform where we are born different and free.
The rest is man made as per usual.
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  #57  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:54 PM
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That actually kind of makes sense.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Zamora View Post
That actually kind of makes sense.
Do I get 10/10 for that?
Or is that still being debated??
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Old 08-07-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
not created equally?!
that is just a pure guess.

Why would you not have a definitive opinion formed on this?
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Old 08-07-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Why would you not have a definitive opinion formed on this?
Hi there Mohican.

I find the statement misleading.
Men are not created equal it is not possible.
Each one of us is born different but at the same time born free.
Anything else after that will dictate how we are going to drift to different classes and way of thinking to create a kind of separation from one another because of already created establishments such as religion and other factors like money.
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