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Je suis Charlie

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  #1  
Old 11-14-2015, 01:53 AM
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Default Je suis Charlie


Moi aussi, je suis Charlie.

I'm filled with horror, rage and shock about the latest wave of Paris murders, and I wanted to start a solidarity thread. Are any Writers' Beat members there?

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Old 11-14-2015, 03:14 AM
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We are permitted to lament the effects of terrorism on this site.

Are we constrained from examining the intentions of the bad actors?

Please excuse this slight movement from the topics' focus.

Responding directly: I am not a Writers Beat member in Paris.
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Old 11-14-2015, 03:50 AM
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You don't have to be a citizen at all sir. As far as I'm concerned it's about freedom of expression and dissolving prior restraint of sorts. It's also about murder and people taking things way too seriously. I'm not too up to date on all the happenings around it, but a bit of the sentiment I understand.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by daes13 View Post
You don't have to be a citizen at all sir. As far as I'm concerned it's about freedom of expression and dissolving prior restraint of sorts. It's also about murder and people taking things way too seriously. I'm not too up to date on all the happenings around it, but a bit of the sentiment I understand.

Agreed.


Yet I have reasons to question if the attackers are truly aggrieved or if they are being pawnly moved in a larger maneuver.

However, this is, perhaps, only the place to say Paris victims matter and not a place to say what are all the events that bring us to the need of saying such a thing.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
Yet I have reasons to question if the attackers are truly aggrieved or if they are being pawnly moved in a larger maneuver.
Given the complexity and the amount of coordination required to pull off these attacks, I think it's a good bet that it was orchestrated from a pretty high level.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Binx B View Post
Given the complexity and the amount of coordination required to pull off these attacks, I think it's a good bet that it was orchestrated from a pretty high level.
Ah, but was the orchestration meant for killing only or are there unseen (by us ordinary paucitly self informed public types) designs being worked?

And I am quite wary of getting my knuckles wooden ruler rapped (those of you who were not ... ahem .. blessed with a Catholic gradeschool upbringing may need to consult a Nun for an explanation of that reference) by the powers that be (here) for traveling down this thread path.

Thus, before this line of discussion blows up in my face, it may prove prudent to await ... well I don't even know what I am waiting for.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
Ah, but was the orchestration meant for killing only or are there unseen (by us ordinary paucitly self informed public types) designs being worked?
If ISIS is behind it, then I don't think there's much doubt about their designs and long-tern goals.

Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
And I am quite wary of getting my knuckles wooden ruler rapped (those of you who were not ... ahem .. blessed with a Catholic gradeschool upbringing may need to consult a Nun for an explanation of that reference) by the powers that be (here) for traveling down this thread path.

Thus, before this line of discussion blows up in my face, it may prove prudent to await ... well I don't even know what I am waiting for.
I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't feel outraged and saddened by this.

Talking about it, trying to understand who did it and why is a natural reaction, a way for people try to process these kinds of events. So I would hope the powers that be won't see fit to neuter the thread and make it all about saying, "oh what a shame" etc.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:38 AM
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("...we will have ample opportunity to discuss the ramifications of this event elsewhere on this forum I guess, but for now I want to avoid that just to express my condolences to the bereaved, my sympathies to the injured, and a hope for constraint and vigilance towards those who remain..." mentioned the goblin, adding "...I for one will not hate, why, because hate feeds off hate...")
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Binx B View Post

I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't feel outraged and saddened by this.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
Moi aussi, je suis Charlie.

I'm filled with horror, rage and shock about the latest wave of Paris murders, and I wanted to start a solidarity thread. Are any Writers' Beat members there?
Ah comment drôle. Voyant que cette attaque rien à voir avec avait la Hebdo bandes dessinée.

Having relatives whom live in Paris, can the title be changed by chance. No offence but the Hebdo comics were a tragedy in and of themselves. Let's not tarnish the memory of them or the memory of the people now by clumping them into a singular "mass grave".

As it is, people can spread the condolences until they are blue in the face & pray for the victims' families until hoarse. If the world just sits back scratching their ass as they did when Egypt tried for their massive air strike when the pilot was burnt to death than words are just that... words. And as the old saying goes, words without actions are meaningless.

Again no offence but I am getting tired of people continually talking and not doing anything about ISIS/ISIL, etc. and the few people whom have left their countries to join the fight against ISIS/ISIL are often painted in some of the more ratty news papers / new programs in a rather bad light.

Last edited by Minu; 11-18-2015 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 11-18-2015, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
Ah, but was the orchestration meant for killing only or are there unseen (by us ordinary paucitly self informed public types) designs being worked?

.

The Paris attacks, like all the others were truly terrible. My heart goes out to all the victims.

That said, I too suspect a much wider net being cast here...

Suddenly a new and seemingly unstoppable enemy. How convenient.

Or maybe I'm just a cynical ass.
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Old 11-19-2015, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Suddenly a new and seemingly unstoppable enemy. How convenient.
There is nothing new about this enemy, these "terrorists". The tribes and familial sects of the mid-east have been fighting amongst themselves for centuries. These "terrorist" organizations have been mentioned throughout history particularly during the British raj of that region.

You know one of my patients is a Vietnam vet. An officer. He did two tours. We had the most interesting conversation about the "war on terrorism" and the issue of the mid-east on Monday. Pretty sure we frightened my colleagues when we burst into hysterics about the "democratic governments" the west has tried to install in that region - those won't last a decade. One didn't even last a year, the votes were found to be rigged from the start. As he said, and being former military myself I whole heartedly agreed, the west didn't have a single clue what they were doing when they engaged the mid-east. A literal case of the blind leading the blind.

The only thing new about this enemy is the mollycoddling response. The yapping governments whom, in the long run, unfortunately do very little. There's a saying, his bark is worse than his bite and it applies quite well to our response to the "terrorists".
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Old 11-19-2015, 09:03 AM
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Hi Minu.

You said:
(((As it is, people can spread the condolences until they are blue in the face & pray for the victims' families until hoarse. If the world just sits back scratching their ass as they did when Egypt tried for their massive air strike when the pilot was burnt to death than words are just that... words. And as the old saying goes, w[I]ords without actions are meaningless.)))

Again no offence but I am getting tired of people continually talking and not doing anything about ISIS/ISIL, etc. and the few people whom have left their countries to join the fight against ISIS/ISIL are often painted in some of the more ratty news papers / new programs in a rather bad light.)))

"Yaketing yak! Don't talk back!"

Sometimes I wake up feeling like I've been transported to a universe where everything is backwards. Up is down. In is out. And every challenge is met with talking it to death.

I appreciate your post.

Now I am ashamed of the US because we have idiot Politicians calling for a refusal to grant a home to those fleeing death.

Ye Gads! The idiots have taken control of the ship!

wrc
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Minu View Post
There is nothing new about this enemy, these "terrorists". The tribes and familial sects of the mid-east have been fighting amongst themselves for centuries. These "terrorist" organizations have been mentioned throughout history particularly during the British raj of that region.

You know one of my patients is a Vietnam vet. An officer. He did two tours. We had the most interesting conversation about the "war on terrorism" and the issue of the mid-east on Monday. Pretty sure we frightened my colleagues when we burst into hysterics about the "democratic governments" the west has tried to install in that region - those won't last a decade. One didn't even last a year, the votes were found to be rigged from the start. As he said, and being former military myself I whole heartedly agreed, the west didn't have a single clue what they were doing when they engaged the mid-east. A literal case of the blind leading the blind.

The only thing new about this enemy is the mollycoddling response. The yapping governments whom, in the long run, unfortunately do very little. There's a saying, his bark is worse than his bite and it applies quite well to our response to the "terrorists".

My questions about the topic are more about why we engaged the Middle East at all, inviting and incurring hostility. The Raj was a colonial occupation of a foreign country. The locals were defending themselves. Yes, they were terrorists, and brutally ruthless, but what were their choices? Why were we there? Why are we there now? What blame do we have to bear for the current situation? Are we there to give them democracy? Why don't we give Africa democracy? Nothing we want there?

I'm being a little funny, I know, but blowing the shit out of everyone who has something we want, is no way of living without consequences.
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Old 11-19-2015, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
My questions about the topic are more about why we engaged the Middle East at all, inviting and incurring hostility. The Raj was a colonial occupation of a foreign country. The locals were defending themselves. Yes, they were terrorists, and brutally ruthless, but what were their choices? Why were we there? Why are we there now? What blame do we have to bear for the current situation? Are we there to give them democracy? Why don't we give Africa democracy? Nothing we want there?

I'm being a little funny, I know, but blowing the shit out of everyone who has something we want, is no way of living without consequences.
The "terrorists" have existed long before the raj. They're mentioned in the Bible, the fighting amongst the tribal sects, if you look. They're mentioned with respect to the Ottoman Empire - which was nothing but familial fighting.

I put "terrorists" in quotes because the only reason why they've become "terrorists" is cause the west did indeed stick its nose where it doesn't belong. If we hadn't they'd have being fighting amongst themselves, as they have for centuries, and the west, as a whole, wouldn't be any wiser.


Why are we there now? Nothing more than the blind leading the blind. The war on "terrorism" was nothing but the war for oil. Everyone knows that now, most people who weren't simply following knew it then.


What blame do we have to bear for the current situation? Unfortunately, the average westerner doesn't understand the mid-east so they simply don't grasp how responsible they / the west are. Taking wrc's warning on another post, I won't elaborate on how much. PM if interested.


Are we there to give them democracy? Again a western concept with no grasp of the mid-east. The "democracy" attempts are nothing but a farce to excuse being there [same as the war on terrorism being a cover for the war for oil]. However, there is no democracy there. They don't want it. They won't have it. Living for centuries under a tyrannical thumb, which the west removed, they don't understand democracy.

Let to their own devices, these countries will chew those democratic attempts up and spit them out in less than ten years. The "democratic" government put in what last year, early this year, was a mess-up from the get go with rigged votes, terrified voters being pressured to vote for one party. There's a reason why the voting had to be redone.


Why don't we give Africa democracy? Nothing we want there? Well you answered your own question didn't you?
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:03 PM
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All of the questions were rhetorical. Everybody should know the answers.

Although, oil was not the only reason. Our contractors needed something to rebuild, and the US gov't pays more that $100,000 for one of those fancy missiles to defense contractors. You know how many we shot off, right? (Or should I say, how many the ordinary citizens of the US paid for through taxes?) it's a lot.
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:22 AM
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Sticking to the original sentiment of the thread (because I don't think this is the place for getting on soapboxes) - Je suis Paris.

No matter what the reason or motivation, this was a barbaric and abhorrent act of war against defenceless civilians. Paris is one of my favourite cities and I spend a lot of time there and plan to go back as soon as I can to support my friends there.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:22 PM
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The French scoffed at the Jews, the Jews are now mock the French .....
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