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  #1  
Old 02-23-2018, 11:09 AM
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Default Guns n' Teachers


The Donald has suggested the solution to High School shootings is arming teachers. I can't help thinking this is just opening a whole new can of worms. On the other hand, Kindergarten Cop was probably Arnie's greatest achievement, so maybe he's onto something.

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Old 02-23-2018, 06:54 PM
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Default Guns n' Teachers

Then how long will it be before some disgruntled teacher shoots up a school.

And the red states, the ones with the lowest pay and poorest working relationships, would be the most likely to pass out guns to teachers.

Fuck, itís so much fun to watch stupid human tricks.


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Old 02-23-2018, 07:04 PM
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[QUOTE=flyingtart

The Donald has suggested the solution to High School shootings is arming teachers.

[/QUOTE]


So now to suck up to the teacher apples are out and ammo is in?
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
So now to suck up to the teacher apples are out and ammo is in?


Still give apples. We gotta distract her so we can get that pistol out of her desk.


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Old 02-23-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Still give apples. We gotta distract her so we can get that pistol out of her desk.


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You go for the desk. I wanna check her garters for derringers.

What!
Like I'm the only one who was thinkin' it.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:11 AM
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Brian : the red states might have lower teacher pay, but how do you prove that they have worse "teacher relationships?

And "low" teacher pay in poor areas is a bit of a red herring, because they often occur in tandem with low housing cost and a lower COLA.

And there is the possibility that a teacher could have a bad day, and "snap" but the type that would go through the process and training would have a very low probability. The statistics would go along with the increase in people carrying via wide spread CCW permits. If people are given to shooting people because they are having a bad day, you're theory would have borne fruit by now.

But it hasn't.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Brian : the red states might have lower teacher pay, but how do you prove that they have worse "teacher relationships?

And "low" teacher pay in poor areas is a bit of a red herring, because they often occur in tandem with low housing cost and a lower COLA.

And there is the possibility that a teacher could have a bad day, and "snap" but the type that would go through the process and training would have a very low probability. The statistics would go along with the increase in people carrying via wide spread CCW permits. If people are given to shooting people because they are having a bad day, you're theory would have borne fruit by now.

But it hasn't.


So, there should be special ďteacherĒ classes, training, and licenses for teachers who wanted to carry? I donít think the gun lobby would allow that to happen.

In my state you need no classes, training, or anything else to conceal carry or open carry or whatever.

As far as teacher relationships being worse in states with lower pay, itís obvious. Obvious in teacher satisfaction surveys, attrition, and by almost all measures including student performance, and graduation rates.

The argument that itís not money that makes people happy is just an attempt to justify short-changing them.



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Old 02-24-2018, 08:19 AM
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A little something from Dr. Strangelove. After reading a transcript from General Jack Ripper who had earlier ordered a US bomber wing to attack the Soviet Union there is this exchange:

Uh, we're, still trying to figure out the meaning of that last phrase, sir.

President Merkin Muffley: There's nothing to figure out, General Turgidson. This man is obviously a psychotic.

General "Buck" Turgidson: We-he-ell, uh, I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all the facts are in.

President Merkin Muffley: General Turgidson! When you instituted the human reliability tests, you *assured* me there was *no* possibility of such a thing *ever* occurring!

General "Buck" Turgidson: Well, I, uh, don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir.


And there is the possibility that a teacher could have a bad day, and "snap" but the type that would go through the process and training would have a very low probability.


How can you possibly know what an as yet nonexistent program would result in. How do you know which type would be admitted? How do you know the quality of the training they would receive? Militaries are dedicated to employing weapon systems and they still make mistakes all the time or display a lack of proficiency. Ill give you an example. Wilkey general fuckup in my old platoon decides while he is running to break open the receiver and let all the guts spill out.

Another example. My brother who recently came back from Afghanistan relates a story to me about how the Apache gunships they called in for fire support, one of the most advanced pieces of equipment any army fields, couldnt hit their fucking targets after almost two hours of strafing.

So in your world some teacher who didnt sign up to shoot kids is now given a gun, some rudimentary training, and tasked with responding to a mass shooter event where you have the potential for hundreds of moving targets, other armed targets, because presumably you wouldnt only arm one teacher, in addition to the usual police liaison whose actual duty is to respond in the case of a shooting, but all this in a new and chaotic situation which in reality you really cant train for. What could possibly go wrong?


The statistics would go along with the increase in people carrying via wide spread CCW permits.

This is an unintelligible sentence. What statistics are you referring to?


If people are given to shooting people because they are having a bad day, you're theory would have borne fruit by now.

Also its your not you're. And I think its apparent by now that people are prone to shooting people because otherwise why would we be having this discussion? Also interesting to note here https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/hus11.pdf on page 12 table 3 that firearms of one sort or another are used in the vast majority of homicides. Even in the rural areas for female victims its 58.5%. This was back in 2011 during a declining trend which ended in 2013/2014 according to the FBI. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...tables/table-3 and which has been generally increasing ever since. So obviously people are prone to shooting another and it matters not a damn jot practically speaking whether they snap because of a bad day or because they cant take it anymore or for whatever reason.
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:44 AM
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itís a terrible thing guys, unimaginable for some of us on this global site, so sorry to hear of yet another tragedy. The guns and teacher thing will run and run, how about entering the school premises with nothing, absolutely no personal effects or bags, security where the children gather to enter and on school transport.
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:45 AM
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My wife used to teach -- occasionally she'd say something like, I could just kill that kid -- well now they can!
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:05 PM
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If weíre going to give teachers guns (or anybody for that matter) we should exclude any who take anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medication for starters. That should thin the herd. If you canít manage your life, you shouldnít be able to own a deadly weapon.


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Old 02-25-2018, 03:09 AM
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[QUOTE=brianpatrick

In my state you need no classes, training, or anything else to conceal carry or open carry or whatever.

[/QUOTE]

Three year olds can carry guns in your state? Your pedophile population must be the lowest in the nation.
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Old 02-25-2018, 03:25 AM
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[QUOTE=brianpatrick

If you canít manage your life, you shouldnít be able to own a deadly weapon.

[/QUOTE]

Take their automobiles away from them.

Oh wait. Cars don't kill people. People kill ... - wait a sec - if a people has a car they can drive into groups of people and ... okay, back to the original statement. Take those big battering rams and put them on bicycles.

That should help.

What? Now they are slashin' at ya with kitchen knives as they pedal past ya?

You didn't relegate them to plastic ware?

C'mon! Do I have do all the thinkin' through?
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Old 02-25-2018, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
Three year olds can carry guns in your state? Your pedophile population must be the lowest in the nation.
Brilliant idea. Arm tots at birth. Darwinism will sort out those who deserve to live.
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Old 02-25-2018, 04:20 AM
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[QUOTE=anna
how about entering the school premises with nothing, absolutely no personal effects or bags, security where the children gather to enter and on school transport.[/QUOTE]


Come to think of it I have never heard of a shooting in a nudist colony.

You may be on to something here, anna.
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Old 02-25-2018, 04:23 AM
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[QUOTE=flyingtart

Darwinism will sort out those who deserve to live.

[/QUOTE]

Looking at the entire situation, world wide, that may be exactly what has always been transpiring.
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Old 02-25-2018, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
Take their automobiles away from them.

Oh wait. Cars don't kill people. People kill ... - wait a sec - if a people has a car they can drive into groups of people and ... okay, back to the original statement. Take those big battering rams and put them on bicycles.

That should help.

What? Now they are slashin' at ya with kitchen knives as they pedal past ya?

You didn't relegate them to plastic ware?

C'mon! Do I have do all the thinkin' through?



What?
Now that ya got them down to plasticware they are porcupineing your backs as they roll by with pencils?

For the love of Wick!
Now you are gonna try convincin' me that people don't kill people if they don't have access to pencils?

Okay. Lets give that approach a try. If nothin' else it should cut down on misspelled words.

Oh, you didn't know that pencils misspell words?
Sure. That's why they come with an eraser attached. So you can clean things up when the lead goes awry and makes a mistake.
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Old 02-25-2018, 05:10 AM
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brianpatrick wrote:
So, there should be special ďteacherĒ classes, training, and licenses for teachers who wanted to carry? I donít think the gun lobby would allow that to happen.
That might go state by state and district by district. But I really doubt that even in states where there is no training provision to carry, that they would allow a teacher to go strapped without training.

Liability issues for one reason would demand this.
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Old 02-25-2018, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
My wife used to teach -- occasionally she'd say something like, I could just kill that kid -- well now they can!
I will of course take this as a joke and not a rebuttal.
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
That might go state by state and district by district. But I really doubt that even in states where there is no training provision to carry, that they would allow a teacher to go strapped without training.

Liability issues for one reason would demand this.


The liability question starts with loaded weapons on school campuses. Thatís why, even in my state, you canít take guns onto campuses (most, not sure about some of the private places). Just like at an Intel plant, you canít take an aluminum ladder.




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Old 02-25-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
Take their automobiles away from them.



Oh wait. Cars don't kill people. People kill ... - wait a sec - if a people has a car they can drive into groups of people and ... okay, back to the original statement. Take those big battering rams and put them on bicycles.



That should help.



What? Now they are slashin' at ya with kitchen knives as they pedal past ya?



You didn't relegate them to plastic ware?



C'mon! Do I have do all the thinkin' through?


Cars and kitchenware have actual functions beyond killing or threatening people (or deterring bad guys if youíre really drunk on the koolaid).

An 1-1/4Ē x 2í piece of galvanized pipe can be used to kill someone too, but what itís essential for is transferring natural gas to your house.

Guns are designed to kill other people. Thatís their function.

Yes, I understand hunters and some rural folks need them too, but that donít impact the vast majority of society. And last I checked, not many people hunt deer or scare off bears with ARís. In fact, not many use handguns for those things either.




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Old 02-25-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
I will of course take this as a joke and not a rebuttal.

Yes -- it's a joke. But there is also some truth to it or I wouldn't have said it.

Teaching can be a high-pressure job, and there can be conflict between teachers and students or between students that can get violent. It happens.

And now you're introducing a gun into the equation...
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:12 PM
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Laughing pretty hard at what I see on social media -- all these rubes blaming these mass shootings on everything under the sun except the sheer availability of guns and a culture that glorifies guns.

Well, there are other countries that are even more secular, with similar parenting styles (or lack thereof) the same kinds of cultural influences, (a lot of what we export) the same kinds of mental illnesses -- and yet mass shootings are exceedingly rare -- comparatively.


I wonder why???

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Old 02-25-2018, 01:21 PM
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And we'll never get a handle on this with our retarded mish mash of federal and state laws.

Only ten sates require that you report a lost or stolen gun?

I could go on...
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:46 PM
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And a lot of guns enter the black market through straw sales.

You could substantiallly reduce that with a nation-wide requirement for gun owners to periodically re-register guns on a nationwide basis. BUT NO!

A lot of commen sense measures aren't necessarily related to mass shootings, but the reason none of them can be considered is that the NRA and gun advocates will block any gun legislation at any cost -- because of the slippery slope -- because they believe the next thing is that the Feds are going to show up on your doorstep to take all your guns away!

Just admit the price you pay for having any kind of gun you want or think you need, acquired however, is a lot of senseless random gun violence. Just quit lying and we can move on from there.

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Old 02-25-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Cars and kitchenware have actual functions beyond killing or threatening people (or deterring bad guys if youíre really drunk on the koolaid).

An 1-1/4Ē x 2í piece of galvanized pipe can be used to kill someone too, but what itís essential for is transferring natural gas to your house.

Guns are designed to kill other people. Thatís their function.

Yes, I understand hunters and some rural folks need them too, but that donít impact the vast majority of society. And last I checked, not many people hunt deer or scare off bears with ARís. In fact, not many use handguns for those things either.




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Funny shit. Spend a few minutes delving into the deeper recesses of Facebook --

Why don't we just ban baseball bats and pressure cookers?

Moronic.
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Old 02-25-2018, 02:16 PM
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Default Guns n' Teachers

I agree (duh)

Except, I donít believe the primary motivation for the NRA and the gun lobby is the actual slippery slope of descending into tyranny. I think itís financial in nature. The NRA and the lobbyists are basically propped up by corporate interests, manufacturers who sell guns and ammo, or otherwise profit from the industry.

Corporate funding is to the tune of 350 mil, while dues and single contributors is somewhere around 85 mil. Thatís still a good chunk of money, but only 1/4 of what they get and use every year.

The corporate money canít be used for political donations in most cases, so the $85mil has to go for that.

A 38 billion dollar industry can afford a good pit bull to be its mouthpiece.
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Old 02-25-2018, 02:55 PM
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Heh. Yeah -- of course in the end it's all about the money.

I was talking about the methods and messaging used to manipulate gun advocates.

In the wake Friday's announcements that various corporations have severed ties with the NRA, across social media you see people regurgitating the NRA line and talking points.

This from people who are convinced that gun control advocates are brainwashed by the so-called mainstream media...

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Old 02-25-2018, 03:11 PM
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There is a lot misinformation and bullshit on both sides of this.

It's my opinion that both gun proponents and gun control advocates generally have good intentions -- at the core. That might include some politicians.

But the NRA -- they are fucking liars and they know it.
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Old 02-25-2018, 03:15 PM
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And scared deputies.
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