WritersBeat.com
 

Go Back   WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table

The Intellectual Table Discussions on political topics, social issues, current affairs, etc.


Find new problems, and ban everything!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-29-2018, 08:16 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,908
Thanks: 207
Thanks 725
Default Find new problems, and ban everything!


Again we have some strange moral crusade where something which might have previously been considered natural is perceived as a toxic, and divisive behavioural trait -- socially constructed? -- which should be banned...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...t-friends.html

Yeah so kids shouldn't have best friends because it's not fair. At the nth degree of the equality and diversity camp is where you can see its most stupid proposals. But make no mistake, these things are being taken seriously.

Remember brave new world. No one had relationships, human interaction was shared equally, ie: everyone had sex with everyone else, in a big state organised orgy. Preferences are now outlawed

__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-29-2018, 09:19 AM
An old face's Avatar
An old face (Offline)
Pencil pusher
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Thanks: 2
Thanks 6
Default

The whole world has gone into a tailspin. There are so many issues getting under my skin right now that I'm not even sure where this would go if I started to reply.

Political correctness has gone made. Men are afraid to pay women compliments in case it's seen as harassment. And women are being told they can't model as they're being exploited.

We're creating a world of spineless, sycophantic snowflakes.
__________________
"People! I ain't people!"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-29-2018, 09:28 AM
Myers (Offline)
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,224
Thanks: 382
Thanks 403
Default

The article did say viewers thought the notion was rediculous.

Maybe we can hold out some hope that there will be a backlash against all this nonesense.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-29-2018, 10:26 AM
flyingtart's Avatar
flyingtart (Online)
Scribbling Master
Official Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 878
Thanks: 141
Thanks 171
Default

It's the DAILY MAIL, ffs.

What are you doing linking to that cesspit of non stories? Get a grip, man.
__________________
Awaiting the return of the Dogís Arse Messiah.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:33 PM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 4,103
Thanks: 370
Thanks 693
Default

'Some children don't have a best friend, I didn't have a best friend, if I did have a best friend I think it's because no one wanted to be friends with us.'

This might be where her drive to keep kids from having best friends comes from.





Fraser called on primary school teachers to encourage children to have a large group of friends, rather than one 'best' one.

I think this is an emotionally stunting idea.
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-29-2018, 11:57 PM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,908
Thanks: 207
Thanks 725
Default

Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
It's the DAILY MAIL, ffs.

What are you doing linking to that cesspit of non stories? Get a grip, man.
Meh

Daily Mail

Guardian

Telegraph

Labour

Conservative

Thatcher

Blaire

yada yada
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-30-2018, 12:00 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,908
Thanks: 207
Thanks 725
Default

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...ad-argues.html

It's not a non-story as such, I mean, you can find elements of it in most mainstream papers. And in any case the opinion is out there amongst intellectuals and figures in education.

The conclusion doesn't surprise me at all. The reasoning for all this stuff goes like this:

Life is unfair

Therefore

Regulate

Regulate, regulate, regulate, regulate
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.

Last edited by JohnConstantine; 01-30-2018 at 12:04 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-30-2018, 03:12 AM
fleamailman's Avatar
fleamailman (Online)
Samuel Johnson, obviously!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,657
Thanks: 2,609
Thanks 3,920
Default

("...what' are newspapers today, and why should we take any note of them still..." inquired the goblin suspecting that the more one is suppressed in one's school days the more that one's personality becomes hidden by it, adding "...and besides, how does one draw the line between friends and non friends, between best friends and just friends too, what is the yardstick here and what are the consequences of being too friendly too...", in fact, the goblin felt that it was food for thought but not much thought in light of what the newspapers were actually omitting about the forthcoming war in the middleeast and financial breakdown of the system, relating "...so much is happening that it almost makes me feel sorry for any journalist forced to report its paymaster's agenda...")
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-30-2018, 08:11 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,908
Thanks: 207
Thanks 725
Default

Originally Posted by fleamailman View Post
...and besides, how does one draw the line between friends and non friends, between best friends and just friends too, what is the yardstick here and what are the consequences of being too friendly too...", )
That's the beauty of these things and no one would say it would they. The head won't outline any kind of means of enforcement, because actual enforcement is absurd.

Presumably once it becomes policy it'll just be something which is gently discouraged.

I'd hope the kids rose up and declared BFF's all over the place just to watch the teachers trying to formulate some method of policing. I imagine at that stage, short of actually trying to punish friendship, the experiment would be abandoned.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-30-2018, 10:50 AM
anna (Offline)
Abnormally Articulate
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 130
Thanks: 55
Thanks 88
Default

um, kids are over supervised, micro managed, ferried to school, pre-school play dates. General loss of autonomy, freedom and play, real unsupervised risk taking play - same risks apply to friendship making. Learning social skills, making mistakes. Itís more a comment on parenting perhaps.

In the public school sector, prep, pre-prep (fee paying) the parents simply arenít wrong. The client never is. Social status is all.

A lot of kids lives are utterly scripted, itís who your parents know, who your parents engage with on the playground leading to Internships and such like. Friendships have become parental investments ...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-30-2018, 04:51 PM
Myers (Offline)
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,224
Thanks: 382
Thanks 403
Default

Seems like most of the schools are shit now days.

We home schooled until my kids were of middle school age -- then we sent them to the school I attended -- I had a great experience there.

The way we taught them was that they could question anything and we'd talk it through. That doesn't fly -- the school is very different from when I attended.

There's definitely an agenda. One boy in my daughter's class was trying to make a point about increased border security. My kid said the teacher started making faces and interrupting him -- stopped him even before it was apparent what the boy was really getting to.

My daughter -- not even defending what the boy was saying -- raised her hand and said that he should be able to express his opinion.

Well, there was a big brouhaha -- the boy and my daughter were sent out into the hall for the rest of the class. WTF?

I'm thinking we made a mistake. Like they say, if you want something done right, you'd better do it yourself.

Last edited by Myers; 01-30-2018 at 05:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:06 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Online)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,850
Thanks: 400
Thanks 1,051
Default

I think we should ban ďgood morningĒ

I mean, what if itís not a good morning to me? What if my cat died and my wife is pissed that I left yesterdayís clothes on the floor and has refused to make me breakfast?

Should I have to suffer what amounts to another persons gloating?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to brianpatrick For This Useful Post:
JohnConstantine (01-31-2018)
  #13  
Old 01-30-2018, 11:35 PM
anna (Offline)
Abnormally Articulate
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 130
Thanks: 55
Thanks 88
Default

Parents invest time, money and considerable strategy in playground friendship construction as a sort of substitute extended family. Left to their own devices and with the sort of benign neglect you experience within larger family units kids would naturally group themselves, an organic process along socioeconomic, ideological and cultural lines. Itís natural to group, this used to be part of the trials and tribulations of growing up but home life wasnít chaotic, it was on the whole, stable, boring, consistent.

Children used to create their own social societies, it was no one elseís business, Iím sure they reflected the environments they were nurtured in, it stands to reason. The new overriding social set is anxiously constructed by adults along substitute family lines and itís very intense. Then you have enforced cultural blending to add to the mix ...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-31-2018, 12:28 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,908
Thanks: 207
Thanks 725
Default

Originally Posted by anna View Post
Children used to create their own social societies, it was no one else’s business, I’m sure they reflected the environments they were nurtured in, it stands to reason. The new overriding social set is anxiously constructed by adults along substitute family lines and it’s very intense. Then you have enforced cultural blending to add to the mix ...
School should prepare kids for the world. And no one owes you friendship, it is something you HAVE to negotiate and work on, and sometimes in life you'll be left out. The learning process then should be, whether to accept being left out, perhaps that group isn't to your liking anyway, or how to modify your behaviour to become accepted. You learn who is worth your time and effort, how to reciprocate and how to bargain.

OK so everyone should be accepted right? -- well actually no. You might be an asshole but if you were never called upon to do some self analyses because of some forced system of interaction how would you know? And if they're the assholes, well you don't want to be accepted by assholes, that's called 'falling in with the wrong crowd'.

Even trying to argue against this seems ridiculous. But you're right the negotiation which take place between kids, including navigating the hierarchical structures which are entirely natural is just fundamentally important for a child's social development and no it's not always pretty. It will be no different when you become an adult.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-31-2018, 12:57 AM
anna (Offline)
Abnormally Articulate
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 130
Thanks: 55
Thanks 88
Default

hey dude, d’ya want a coffee? I’m making a cup of tea, really, I don’t think we disagree.

I’m just figuring how it’s come to this. There’s too much in league tables and fickle popularity in trend of the moment schools. Perhaps that’s my point really, parent pressure. Heads are fearful to tell parents to butt out.

Laughing here, you wouldn’t ban best friendies but the whole business seems to have lost that childlike innocence and I don’t mean all sweetness and light - just a purity in its construction.

Last edited by anna; 01-31-2018 at 01:08 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-31-2018, 01:05 AM
anna (Offline)
Abnormally Articulate
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 130
Thanks: 55
Thanks 88
Default

Let’s just say, what would happen if educators were to say parents should consider if they are themselves over investing in their children’s friendships.

That won’t happen, ever.

Why?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4

Last edited by anna; 01-31-2018 at 01:29 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-31-2018, 01:30 AM
Myers (Offline)
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,224
Thanks: 382
Thanks 403
Default

Originally Posted by anna View Post
Parents invest time, money and considerable strategy in playground friendship construction as a sort of substitute extended family.
That makes sense -- but there are some other things that have changed how children make friends these days, at least in my experience, and they kind of feed into each other.

First there's a certain amount of paranoia over safety -- some of which might be justified. That's one of the main reasons children aren't left to their own devices -- why that can't roam around the neighborhood or just go over to some kid's house and ask to play -- hence the organized play dates etc.

The other substitute for that is organized activities and team sports etc. all of which take up a lot of time and aren't very conducive to making friends.

And then because they're never left on their own to play with other kids, they just don't know how to do it -- so they always feel like they need to be entertained. My kids are close in age and always played well together -- using their dolls etc. and making up scenarios -- just pretending. But if other kids came over, they literally did not know how to do it. And when my kids went on a playdate, the mom would usually say something like, today we're going to make cookies or go to the nature center, etc. etc. -- so most of the time it would be planned and orchestrated by the parents.

So the parents are running all this, and of course, they're influencing how kids make friends and with whom -- and unfortunately a lot of it's about convenience and if the parents like the other parents. It's just not a natural or organic thing like it used to be.

The frustrating thing is -- to a certain degree, we're at the point where you just have to go along with all of this even if you know it's not good. The alternative is, your kids sit at home by themselves.

Last edited by Myers; 01-31-2018 at 01:33 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-31-2018, 02:52 AM
anna (Offline)
Abnormally Articulate
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 130
Thanks: 55
Thanks 88
Default

hey Myers, donít lose heart. The most precious thing you can give a child is itself. I donít claim to understand your dynamics and cultural setting which is so very different to mine across the pond, but your children are evidently loved, they have each other, continuity and they know how to play.

Forming friendships is the most natural thing in the world, itís beautiful to see a young person entwined in the throws of a meaningful encounter and the fallout. This can happen within the family setting too, round and round. Itís all about the authenticity of the act though, developing resilience, that robust sense of self.

Your kids will do fine, have confidence, itís about the long haul and it seems a tad unlikely youíll end up with infantalized adults.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-5KUHFHAbc
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to anna For This Useful Post:
Myers (02-01-2018)
  #19  
Old 01-31-2018, 10:20 PM
anna (Offline)
Abnormally Articulate
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 130
Thanks: 55
Thanks 88
Default

...

Last edited by anna; 06-17-2018 at 02:22 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

  WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:20 PM.

vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.