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  #31  
Old 11-20-2016, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Tax cuts combined with taking Fed.gov back to 1990 size and scope would be a boon.
Where are you getting the thing about taking the Federal Government back to 1990 spending?

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  #32  
Old 11-20-2016, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
I find a lot of humor and irony in this as the McCains of the Republican party are not happy with the bully tRUMP wanting to have a peaceful relationship with Russia.

Or would you rather have a "pacifist" like Obama who allowed Hillary to push coups in Egypt and Libya, and John McCain and John Kerry trying to meddle in Syria?


I can find things I don't like about appointments or rumored appointments but I will wait until there are actual facts to weigh in on.

I guess

the bad part of this is we may both have blinders on, we read the same material and draw drastically different conclusions


I do think this question was a little early, I'll ask it again in June. (personal note -- if the internet is still on line, that was for Brian.)


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  #33  
Old 11-20-2016, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Where are you getting the thing about taking the Federal Government back to 1990 spending?


The geniuses here:

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t928832-2/
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  #34  
Old 11-20-2016, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Awesome! They have a poetry and creative writing forum.

I'm working on a illustrated educational children's book series called, Lil' Hitler, along the lines of Limbaugh's Adventures of Rush Revere books. Now I know where I can post excerpts for critique and not worry "political correctness."

Thanks!

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  #35  
Old 11-20-2016, 09:38 AM
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just evaluated stormfront - I stand corrected -- there is something farther right than fox news
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  #36  
Old 11-20-2016, 09:39 AM
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Incoming White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus said Sunday on NBC's "Meet The Press" that President-elect Donald Trump's team is not planning to create a Muslim registry, but would not rule anything out.


the left and right of it


mo sees this as they are not going to create a registry and I see it as they might

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  #37  
Old 11-20-2016, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by max crash View Post
Incoming White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus said Sunday on NBC's "Meet The Press" that President-elect Donald Trump's team is not planning to create a Muslim registry, but would not rule anything out.


the left and right of it


mo sees this as they are not going to create a registry and I see it as they might

max


Blurring lines is the new norm. All sides of politics do it. The 'progressive' left is now busy doing it with the 'he's not my president' protests. That's not to say the reasonable minority doesn't see the truth, but the average human is still basically a smart ape. Occasionally a genius comes along with a brilliant innovation in thought or perspective and we proceed to squash or demonize that person soon after we co-opt his or her ideas and use them for gain in our own selfish causes. But don't worry, Jesus will come back soon and we can maybe pay ISIS to crucify him, while bolstering the coffers of the churches on all sides with sympathetic supporters' hard earned money. It's a win-win.
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  #38  
Old 11-20-2016, 03:33 PM
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A Dallas church voted to perform gay marriages, and it’s getting kicked out of the Texas Baptists


this is just the beginning

first hand accounts by me

two of my grandsons ( their mother is Spanish and a second generation American) were asked at school when they were going to be deported - they learned that from loving even-handed parents no doubt.


my grand daughter / son - transgender as it were- did not get a dorm room at a texas college --- funny they didn't have a problem with her/his sexuality last year and they still have empty rooms.

these sort of things are going to get worse because of the attitudes of trump and his crones. the racist are empowered by his comments and his appointments to his transition team.

like I said - 1950 racism and sexism here we come.

that is why I started this thread to begin with.


now how do you feel about your vote?


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  #39  
Old 11-21-2016, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Where are you getting the thing about taking the Federal Government back to 1990 spending?
Not from rRUMP. That's just the point in time that FedGov crossed the one trillion/year budget Rubicon....
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  #40  
Old 11-21-2016, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post

Oh, Brian, you never fail to draw the wrong conclusion.
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  #41  
Old 11-21-2016, 03:40 PM
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Facts – you know how I like facts

in 1990, The U S budget was about 1 trillion dollars, in today’s dollars that’s 1.827 trillion

The us budget today is about four trillion dollars

In 1990 the U S paid 265 billion in interest on loans, keep in mind that the number of U S dollars in circulation is part of the national debt. We pay the interest on that loan to ourselves.

Today we pay in interest about 432 billion

According to a Forbs report, this year and in historical retrospect the percentage of government employees compared to the population is 6.9 percent

In 1990 the percentage was 7.2

The GDP in 1990 was about 6 Trillion
In 2015, it was 15 trillion.

In conclusion, my thoughts,

While the cost of government has – let’s say doubled; the size of government has as far as employees go, went down .3 percent

It is possible when the size of government is spoken of today it may be referring to the, some say, overburdening regulations.

How close am I here mo.

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  #42  
Old 11-21-2016, 04:28 PM
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It's not the overall debt you want to look at, it's the debt with regard to GDP that matters. I thought that's where you were going Max, but you stopped short.

If you look at it that way, it looks pretty much like what a reasonable economist would expect.

All this talk about lowering the debt is silly gobbledegook.
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  #43  
Old 11-21-2016, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Oh, Brian, you never fail to draw the wrong conclusion.


Did you read the thread? They support many of your claims. I should think you'd be proud to call these guys brothers. They love guns, dislike the gay lifestyle, and constantly talk about the perversion of our society.
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  #44  
Old 11-21-2016, 07:35 PM
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I as just responding to mo's comment about shrinking government back to 1990, if we did that then it would rise by .3 percent

but to your post, if you look at it that way the gdp was 2.5 times the budget in 90 so --- if you use the 1.827 tril as a base (1 tril 1990 money today) then the budget is actually less percentage wise than in 1990. (the GDP is about 3.75 larger than the 4 tril budget

think of it like this --- in 1950 a car battery cost 12.95 cents and people made 35 dollars a week

today a battery cost a hundred and most make 400 dollars a week

so 13 over 35 is about 37 percent

and today 100 over 400 is 25 percent ---- although a battery cost a hundred dollars today it is still cheaper than it was in 1950 because it takes a lower percentage of your check to buy.



does that work

you can't just look at todays numbers in a vacuum.


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  #45  
Old 11-21-2016, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by max crash View Post
I as just responding to mo's comment about shrinking government back to 1990, if we did that then it would rise by .3 percent

but to your post, if you look at it that way the gdp was 2.5 times the budget in 90 so --- if you use the 1.827 tril as a base (1 tril 1990 money today) then the budget is actually less percentage wise than in 1990. (the GDP is about 3.75 larger than the 4 tril budget

think of it like this --- in 1950 a car battery cost 12.95 cents and people made 35 dollars a week

today a battery cost a hundred and most make 400 dollars a week

so 13 over 35 is about 37 percent

and today 100 over 400 is 25 percent ---- although a battery cost a hundred dollars today it is still cheaper than it was in 1950 because it takes a lower percentage of your check to buy.



does that work

you can't just look at todays numbers in a vacuum.


max


I wouldn't have guessed you'd be so good at math—you being a hillbilly and all. But there it is...

Yeah, the national debt is just a false argument to justify kicking out all the illegal immigrants and establishing laws which benefit the rich even more. Those poor dumbasses that think the wealthy will allow more profit to trickle down once their new golden boy takes control were duped again.

Next, we should talk about all the constitutional changes necessary to make America great again. That's another bag of bullshit.
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  #46  
Old 11-22-2016, 11:19 AM
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we could now talk about the deficit --- that's simple too. if you are paying out more money than you are taking in then you have two choices

in this case

one spend less - an since that has proven impossible over the last dozen presidents then you are left with one option


two---- raise taxes.


it is not good to pay your county works if you can't provide the materials for them to do their job. 14 people can't fix a pot hole if they don't have any asphalt





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  #47  
Old 11-22-2016, 01:49 PM
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The third option is to print more fake money. If we need more money to pay for stuff, it's as easy as a phone call.

Sure, the more we print, the more the value of existing money goes down, but it's all a game anyway.

I think we should focus on more important matters.

Did your state vote to legalize recreational this time around? Mine said no. The only one in the bunch that said no.😡
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  #48  
Old 11-22-2016, 02:49 PM
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just medical, the rec was taken off the ballet by state supreme court

but we can now carry open a hunting knife not to exceed 18 inches right next to our guns every where except in a school building, even banks.

hum --- those two don't mix do they, good thing we can only be told to use by a doctor.
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  #49  
Old 11-22-2016, 05:14 PM
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Usually it's not the pot heads out there committing crimes though, unless you count stealing your cookies😆
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by max crash View Post
Facts – you know how I like facts

in 1990, The U S budget was about 1 trillion dollars, in today’s dollars that’s 1.827 trillion

The us budget today is about four trillion dollars

In 1990 the U S paid 265 billion in interest on loans, keep in mind that the number of U S dollars in circulation is part of the national debt. We pay the interest on that loan to ourselves.

Today we pay in interest about 432 billion

According to a Forbs report, this year and in historical retrospect the percentage of government employees compared to the population is 6.9 percent

In 1990 the percentage was 7.2

The GDP in 1990 was about 6 Trillion
In 2015, it was 15 trillion.

In conclusion, my thoughts,

While the cost of government has – let’s say doubled; the size of government has as far as employees go, went down .3 percent

It is possible when the size of government is spoken of today it may be referring to the, some say, overburdening regulations.

How close am I here mo.

max
So what was the national debt in 1990? by chart extrapolation - about 2.5 - 3 trillion. So the debt was 1/2 of GDP.

National Debt listed today about 20 trillion. GDP in 2015 about 17 trillion? So debt to gdp is much higher?

And you're inflation adjusted budget is still half of what we are spending. Adjusted for inflation we are still spending twice as much per year?

So going back to 1990 levels, even adjusted for inflation would cut Federal Spending (except for Social Security - which is not accounted for in these figures..... - Social Security ran a six trillion deficit by itself last year) would cut the spending in half. Size/scope would have to change of necessity, too.

To BrianPatricks point - and I've mentioned this before - the debt can be quite high as long as people still have faith in the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency.

If you go to usdebtclock.org you see the debt as of now 19.9 trillion and unfunded US liabilities as ..... 104 trillion (as of 23 Nov 2016)

https://www.opm.gov/POLICY-DATA-OVER...NT-SINCE-1962/

1990 employees 5.234 million
2014 employees 4,185 million

so the US has about a million less national employees but spend twice the money adjusted for inflation.

So employee wise the government has shrunk considerably. About 700,000 less military personnel in 2014 compared to 1990

and less "executive branch civilians".

So numbers wise it's a smaller government .

Spending and regulation wise - larger?
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  #51  
Old 11-23-2016, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
So what was the national debt in 1990? by chart extrapolation - about 2.5 - 3 trillion. So the debt was 1/2 of GDP.

National Debt listed today about 20 trillion. GDP in 2015 about 17 trillion? So debt to gdp is much higher?

And you're inflation adjusted budget is still half of what we are spending. Adjusted for inflation we are still spending twice as much per year?

So going back to 1990 levels, even adjusted for inflation would cut Federal Spending (except for Social Security - which is not accounted for in these figures..... - Social Security ran a six trillion deficit by itself last year) would cut the spending in half. Size/scope would have to change of necessity, too.

To BrianPatricks point - and I've mentioned this before - the debt can be quite high as long as people still have faith in the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency.

If you go to usdebtclock.org you see the debt as of now 19.9 trillion and unfunded US liabilities as ..... 104 trillion (as of 23 Nov 2016)

https://www.opm.gov/POLICY-DATA-OVER...NT-SINCE-1962/

1990 employees 5.234 million
2014 employees 4,185 million

so the US has about a million less national employees but spend twice the money adjusted for inflation.

So employee wise the government has shrunk considerably. About 700,000 less military personnel in 2014 compared to 1990

and less "executive branch civilians".

So numbers wise it's a smaller government .

Spending and regulation wise - larger?


You need to talk to some real economists. Speculation and hyperbole are great in fiction, but in reality they make one look silly. Or worse, like their only goal is some agenda hatched by a think tank somewhere to advance an ideology pointed toward the backers of the think tanks funding.
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  #52  
Old 11-23-2016, 07:11 PM
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ok the gnp was 6 tril in 1990 --- true
the debt was 3.25 mil that's with an m (hard to believe isn't it)


today the gnp is 18 tril

and the debt is 16 trillion

those are facts but they are not adjusted for inflation and the debt is the product of years of deficit spending all adding up to the 16 trillion.


ok now for the kicker, we can't not spend our way out of 26 years (sorry 25 bill Clinton left us in the black his last year in office.)

but back to it, we have to raise taxes to pay off the debt or --- or not spend as much each year as we overspent for the last 26, (25) years

a third grader could tell you this so why can't you follow it.

looking for a solation doesn't come as long as blame is pushed, tell be another way that the debt can be paid off, so by some miracle we get a budget that is 1990 saving 2 trillion dollars - and we don't spend more than we take in (another miracle)

we pay the entire amount on the debt --- it would take 8 may nine years to pay it off.

this would be good but it is never going to happen.


now to the coming tax rate decrease, what sense does that make.

max


s s is in taking part of the budget because the govern took the money that was paid into ss for everyday expenses --- if that money had been left in a 'lock box' then ss would be paying its own way, instead, the government is having to pay back a loan (s)it took from the system.


and how did you get the 104 tril
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  #53  
Old 11-23-2016, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by max crash View Post


and how did you get the 104 tril

From the same people who want to
privatize schools, run private (for profit) prisons, abolish the NEA, and make abortion and gay marriage illegal.

He may not realize this, though.
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Old 11-23-2016, 07:33 PM
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It may also be from the people who brought us crashing the US economy by trying to rapidly change us from a consumer economy to an agrarian society overnight.

Last edited by brianpatrick; 11-23-2016 at 07:36 PM..
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by max crash View Post
ok the gnp was 6 tril in 1990 --- true
the debt was 3.25 mil that's with an m (hard to believe isn't it)


today the gnp is 18 tril

and the debt is 16 trillion
The debt is 20 trillion, roughly. Debt has been over GDP for over half the Obama administration. I've seen 2015 GDP listed at 15 trillion. If you subtract Government activity from GDP it would look even worse.


Originally Posted by max crash View Post
and how did you get the 104 tril
That's debt plus other unfunded liabilities. http://usdebtclock.org
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
You need to talk to some real economists. Speculation and hyperbole are great in fiction, but in reality they make one look silly. Or worse, like their only goal is some agenda hatched by a think tank somewhere to advance an ideology pointed toward the backers of the think tanks funding.
Edited to add: Bless you Brian

You're babbling, just to troll or thinking that you are a thorn in my side, instead of comic relief.

I was responding to Max's post, and can provide any additional citation.

I have noticed that you have a tendency to posting "Experts say" without really any backup, and have noted this on a variety of topics. To avoid any possible future acrimony, I will trust my first instinct to not take you seriously.
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Last edited by Mohican; 12-07-2016 at 07:27 AM..
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
You're babbling, just to troll or thinking that you are a thorn in my side, instead of comic relief.

I was responding to Max's post, and can provide any additional citation.


How witty you are.

Babbling + troll + comic relief = when a smart person without his head up his bum says something counter to my beliefs or opinions. You're good Mo, you're good.😀
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:04 PM
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I looked at your debt clock and there is a lot of numbers there.

but the 104 tril in "That's debt plus other unfunded liabilities." is the biggest farce you've tried to pull off yet. those are debts that could be erased tomorrow if we decide. they are obligations we are commented to but if you are going to count them as debts then you have to count the taxes that will be paid to meet that obligation as assets.

simple accounting

as far as the numbers, I guess I looked at the government site and not the propaganda site. it's not that much different but if you want to see monsters I guess you can - sort of like I do with a trump presidency.


max
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:25 AM
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The US is a divided nation with serious cracks in its walls.

1%--super rich
2%--athletes, actors, Hollywood, etc.
Comfortable middle class (old money)
Struggling middle class (plugging away)
Government employees (steady paycheck)
Non-governmental working class (ignored people who are struggling from paycheck to paycheck)
Legitimate poor (sad group used as political pawns)
Poor but scammers (lazy people who suck government dry)
Students (most oblivious to reality)

The election of Donald Trump revealed just how troubled the county really is. He isn't the man for the job; Clinton wasn't the person for the job either. Perhaps, like all the other great civilizations before it, the end is near and its citizens are oblivious to the truth.

My heart goes out to the service man and woman who risk their lives to ensure the safety of the citizens. And the struggling working class who no matter how hard they try, just cannot seem to get ahead. And then there are the poor who truly want to get ahead but because of their lack of education are stuck on the bottom.

The USA's major problem, which no politician wants to discuss, is the soaring costs of rents in inner cities. To establish a foothold in New York City, San Francisco, or any other major city would take some serious money. If you look at the big cities, you'll find three, four, and five people sharing the same apartment because "one" cannot afford the rent. When crooked politicians teamed up with real estate moguls and gave them the green light to raise rents enormously, it spelled the doom for the country. It's just a matter of time now before the ceiling collapses. And when historians review the downfall, they will easily point to "greed."

The deal between crooked politicians and the greedy real estate industry was a match made in hell. And look whom Americans just voted into office, a person who would throw Granny into the street just to have her space so he could "triple" the rent for financial gain. Just shows you how deep into muck the country is.

Last edited by Cityboy; 12-01-2016 at 07:34 AM..
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:01 PM
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Furthermore, the real estate bubble burst of the early 2000's was nothing more than a greedy snatching of single family homes by people who had nothing to lose anyway. Now rents are through the roof because so many people have no other alternative. Credit shot, can't buy a home.

Capitalism as practiced here will always demand more. Every year it will squeeze a little more profit from those that can't defend themselves.

In the next decade there will be a push to privatize institutions once thought sacred. We will be paying for basic human rights through the nose. Sad.
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