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  #61  
Old 01-19-2017, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewpc View Post
I'm relatively new here so I thought a lot about weighing in with my opinion. I've picked up pieces here and there about the history of the site, there was a former intellectual table that went defunct and a mass migration of members and someone here noted a conservative bent which I have observed. The remaining members are split between people willing to engage in conversation and those who stay outside of it making snarky comments.
People over estimate the closing of the IT in 2014 as a source for people leaving

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  #62  
Old 01-19-2017, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewpc View Post
If we all drop our pretenses, forego our defenses, admit our cares and fears without sacrifice of personal strength and integrity, if we can risk being fools, risk being wrong, if we can act and speak with assurance of our own dignity, this site, and more importantly the world will be, even if only infinitesimally so, a better place to live. The attempt to alleviate suffering, to advance human understanding, even when futile, that alone is worth celebrating.
Bless your heart, Blue.

I'll be frank and cut to the chase with you.
I find this statement to be disingenuous and showing a total lack of self awareness.

My take away from interactions with you is that you claim to be pursuing a truth, but are only agreeable as long as it's your truth. Otherwise, you employ the old dodges of accusations of double talk, racism, etc.

Stop with the word soup platitudes. If wish to be responded to with less snark you need to forgo personal attacks when you don't get an answer you want.

An argument is not
Russia is bad:
Click here
Click here'
Click here

If you want a true discussion put out a well thought out premise. Then defend your premise. And again, accusations and personal attacks against the opponent don't further your argument. The best analogy is from the early days of the internet - when you accuse your opponent of being Hitler you have just declared defeat. The same with implying racism - it means that you have nothing left to your argument, and then want to put your opponent in the argument on defense.

And now for some (very mild) snark

Originally Posted by bluewpc View Post
@flyingtart Yes I mean like that. I tried to shame you with the absolute horror of the gassing of children and you mocked it. I have friends who have been tortured by the Russians, killed by the Russians, I have friends who have lost their livelihoods, their homes, their families. I've had an attempt on my life by the Russians, privy sector,
As I reread this with another window opened up to youtube, selected What's The Frequency Kenneth? and turned the sound up. It made everything perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWkMhCLkVOg
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  #63  
Old 01-20-2017, 01:56 AM
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I think one contributer to the slow demise of WB was the banning of productive members for being a bit abrasive. This is the internet, after all. Surely we've all been trolled before, and can handle a bit more of it. And even if WB somehow attained to some sort of politically correct nirvana, surely we'd still get trolled elsewhere in our internet travels, so what's the real gain of banning people like JustcallmeEd and Joematt?

We're supposed to be writers, people who pen the sullied pits of human degradation as willingly as we scribe the pristine summits of morality. We need all the experience we can get. Some people are assholes? Good. Assholes make great characters.
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  #64  
Old 01-20-2017, 10:25 AM
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The extent to which Redlorry's departure has damaged this forum is quite hard to overstate. She did loads to make the place positive, welcoming, and full of helpful critique. Yeah, Crowdgather's neglect over the last few years and its inactivity in the face of a server crash are probably the last straw, but Redlorry was a whole bale by herself.

The intellectual table's closure was not a misjudgment but a response to an act that was, paradoxically, both ridiculous and quite serious. I hosted an alternative location, briefly, and it didn't go very far because there was nothing to draw in new people -- and you do need new people, making different points, to keep a debate going.

Banning aggressive, posturing idiots was totally not a mistake.
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  #65  
Old 01-20-2017, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
The extent to which Redlorry's departure has damaged this forum is quite hard to overstate. She did loads to make the place positive, welcoming, and full of helpful critique. Yeah, Crowdgather's neglect over the last few years and its inactivity in the face of a server crash are probably the last straw, but Redlorry was a whole bale by herself.

The intellectual table's closure was not a misjudgment but a response to an act that was, paradoxically, both ridiculous and quite serious. I hosted an alternative location, briefly, and it didn't go very far because there was nothing to draw in new people -- and you do need new people, making different points, to keep a debate going.

Banning aggressive, posturing idiots was totally not a mistake.
I totally agree with you. And Redlorry came to mind earlier before I read your post. There were also a few other female moderators who worked hard but with a gentle touch. I think this forum desperately needs a few strong but soothing female voices to balance the place. Personally, the lack of female presence and the male ego has brought this place to its knees.
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  #66  
Old 01-20-2017, 01:41 PM
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What an astonishingly sexist remark.
Men aren't capable of being strong and soothing?
Women aren't susceptible to egotism?
What a stereotypical world you inhabit.
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  #67  
Old 01-20-2017, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by flyingtart View Post
What an astonishingly sexist remark.

Men aren't capable of being strong and soothing?

Women aren't susceptible to egotism?

What a stereotypical world you inhabit.


Yes, I'm a very compassionate and loving man, with little or no ego driving my boat.
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  #68  
Old 01-20-2017, 03:55 PM
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The most compassionate men I've ever known were gay. And the women I had in mind (formerly from this site) happened to have their lives in order and happened to be helpful to members who needed it.

Fresh ideas from the female perspective would be appreciated here. The male viewpoint fueled by a desire to be king of the hill is what thrives now. New Blood, new sex. Tired of same old crap.

Since when is telling the truth "sexism"? You must be a far-left Democrat.
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  #69  
Old 01-20-2017, 10:27 PM
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Not truth, CB, just an outdated romantic stereotype. Haven't you heard? We lasses are liberated now and free to be as chaotic and unhelpful as we choose. I don't recall WB teeming with fresh ideas when modesses ruled the roost, but perhaps my life isn't orderly enough. To rectify this, I'm considering investing in an electric pressure cooker.

You have a point about male posturing, however. Until the Sisterhood arrive perhaps you could counter this by getting in touch with you feminine side? I have a handbag you can borrow if that would help.
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  #70  
Old 01-21-2017, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Yes, I'm a very compassionate and loving man, with little or no ego driving my boat.

A boat?

A guy in Arizona usin' a boat and here I am in Lauderdale, the Venice of America, usin' what little drive I have to get one of the most egotistical laden forms of locomotion mobile (jesus, c'mon now - where the hell is the practicality in dodgin' Kia's with a 500 lb. piece of 1952 technology that performs with the agility of a drunken circus bear [did I mention the whole affair is sans insurance?]).

Us humans sure are eccentric critters.

Two days ago I spent 20 minutes watchin' a little bee work over a sprinkle of dandelions alongside my parked in driveway car. Now I am certain he nailed a couple of them more than once (and came off empty) but he was nonplussed in his efforts.

Two results from this: I continue with my shadetree wrenchin' and I give all the flowering weeds around the house a few extra days before pullin' them out (yeah, yeah - if it were up to me they would never get pulled but I got a 3 story McMansion next door and I don't need them complainin' to the authorities who will get on my landlady who will give me grief [ain't it nice how I do what it takes to get along ?])

A boat - whoda guessed?
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  #71  
Old 01-21-2017, 03:47 AM
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Always thought you were a guy. Strange. You've been hanging out here too long. Rubbing off on you.
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  #72  
Old 01-21-2017, 03:50 AM
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Always were liberated. Cleopatra ruled Egypt. I used to sell handbags. And if you are a woman, you probably have more than one ... possibly a closet filled with them.

Last edited by Cityboy; 01-21-2017 at 03:52 AM..
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  #73  
Old 01-21-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
if you are a woman, you probably have more than one ... possibly a closet filled with them.

Yeah, all of them sown together with the severed and dried ballsacks of sexist pigs like you!😆😆😆
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  #74  
Old 01-21-2017, 05:58 PM
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At least, you're keeping the 'Beat alive, Doc.
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  #75  
Old 01-21-2017, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by eripiomundus View Post
I think one contributer to the slow demise of WB was the banning of productive members for being a bit abrasive. This is the internet, after all. Surely we've all been trolled before, and can handle a bit more of it. And even if WB somehow attained to some sort of politically correct nirvana, surely we'd still get trolled elsewhere in our internet travels, so what's the real gain of banning people like JustcallmeEd and Joematt?

We're supposed to be writers, people who pen the sullied pits of human degradation as willingly as we scribe the pristine summits of morality. We need all the experience we can get. Some people are assholes? Good. Assholes make great characters.
It may seem "enlightened" to spout that we're all supposed to be writers, and take the good with the bad, and let it drive writing.

Being "a bit abrasive" doesn't get you tossed from Writer's Beat. Continual insults, personal attacks, etc eventually get you a time out and then a ban. For every abrasive good writer that was asked to seek excellence elsewhere there are three to five as good writers that have left because they've been hounded, trolled, etc.

We've had one person that left recently not because he was banned or even given a time out, but was upset that as he followed another member around with insults I would edit out the insults and personal attacks and pm him and request, quite gently that he modify his behavior.

Of the two people that you mentioned, both were given mulligans. One came back under another name, and occasionally contributes as Staff. The other came back and continued personal attacks and insults, etc.

People should not have to put up with a barrage of personal attacks. When People like Red Lorry, as mentioned, or other staff "get a raft of shit" from members it gives little incentive to hang around and help people sort out their writing issues.

Non Serviam once gave me a brutal review of something I had written. But it wasn't a personal insult. I took it to heart, and incorporated his advice. My response to him wasn't an insult, but I thought about it, thanked him and once again, I took his advise.

That is the sort of thing you need to keep a writers site moving forward - the trick is to know how to critique without insult, and to accept the critique for what it is and make yourself better. I don't see a whole lot of that currently.
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  #76  
Old 01-21-2017, 07:06 PM
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I'm not trying to "seem enlightened". Just realistic. Here, as with anywhere in social life, there are going to be those you get along with and those you don't.

But, having said that, I accept your point and concede mine.

I drop in here every now and then. You moderate. Of the two of us you have a much better idea of what goes on day-to-day. Where I see things taken too far every now and then, you see all of it.

My comments were ignorant. Sorry.
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  #77  
Old 01-22-2017, 06:01 AM
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After a while, a forum becomes like a sport, similar to baseball. When a batter doesn't agree with the umpire's strike-three call and turns to jaw him and then kick sand on his shoes, the umpire is left with no choice other than "to throw the bum out!"

Why complicate simplicity? It's the nature of the sport.
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  #78  
Old 01-22-2017, 09:16 AM
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another call for help -- this is no joke- I have all but lost access to the forum and this is a serious question, the last post I see is the 16 and I had to get to this place in a very strange way so

serious question - is there some technical difficulty with the site or is this problem all mine.


please answer.


max crash
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  #79  
Old 01-22-2017, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by max crash View Post
another call for help -- this is no joke- I have all but lost access to the forum and this is a serious question, the last post I see is the 16 and I had to get to this place in a very strange way so

serious question - is there some technical difficulty with the site or is this problem all mine.


please answer.


max crash


Do you access from a computer?
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:54 AM
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If so, clear your browsers cache and history. You may be accessing a cached version of the old site.
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  #81  
Old 01-22-2017, 09:54 AM
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If you have a smart phone, download Tapatalk and access through there.
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  #82  
Old 01-22-2017, 09:56 AM
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There are some problems with the forums visuals, but the rest of it still works. You just won't be able to use avatars. Something I could not give two shits about anyway.
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  #83  
Old 01-22-2017, 11:13 AM
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How did you guess?

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Yeah, all of them sown together with the severed and dried ballsacks of sexist pigs like you!😆😆😆
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  #84  
Old 01-22-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by max crash View Post
another call for help -- this is no joke- I have all but lost access to the forum and this is a serious question, the last post I see is the 16 and I had to get to this place in a very strange way so

serious question - is there some technical difficulty with the site or is this problem all mine.


please answer.


max crash
Yes - there are technical issues that may prevent you from full viewing .
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:26 PM
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Yeah nah strange happenings, but at least this could be used as a case study of a small knit community slowly being 'et up by zombies, or surviving a plague. We could put in a grant application for scientists to study our posts as the paranoia and loneiness sets in.

"Ok guys, who ate the last can of beans?"
"I don't know but PickleBottom has red sauce dripping from his mouth"
"Fucking PickleBottom! I'm going to have some strong words with him!"

<tramps off>

"PickleBottom! Why the fuck... AAAAAARGH! He's eating my fucking arm! AAAAARGH it hurts!

<back at the camp>

"I knew there was something extra-strange/stranger about PickleBottom today, at least that explains the red sauce, he must have turned zombie"

<PickleBottom walks into camp>

<People start scrambling for cover>

PickleBottom - "Hey guys what's wrong?"
Some member of the crew - "Y-you're a zombie!"
PickleBottom - "Possibly in a p-zombie sense of the word in the philosophy of the mind, but not yet a zombie in the those-fucking-things sense of the word"
Some member of the crew - "B-but you just ate <...>'s arm!"
PickleBottom - "Yeah, so? I just needed some meat with my beans"

...and it goes on...
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  #86  
Old 01-23-2017, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
The extent to which Redlorry's departure has damaged this forum is quite hard to overstate.
Totally true. She left a void that has never been filled.

Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
The intellectual table's closure was not a misjudgment but a response to an act that was, paradoxically, both ridiculous and quite serious...

Banning aggressive, posturing idiots was totally not a mistake.
Two points:

Closing the IT was a huge misjudgement. It was the reason a lot of people came here even if the arguments were cyclical and cynical. It drew some big voices in, and kept them in, with the payoff being their participation in other areas of the forum. The problem could have been solved by banning one, possibly two people.

Then the continued tight-lipped response from admins, pretending that there wasn't a problem, and prohibiting any discussion of said problem (which got me banned, but hey-ho, such is life) banged a few more nails in the coffin.

When my ban was lifted and I was invited back I was frankly quite shocked at how far the place had fallen, and even with a rejigged IT, without the major players, there was no point participating.

And now, my first visit back in a very long time, it's 10 times worse. The place is broken and to a new visitor looks like a derelict warehouse.
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:21 PM
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Funny.

Mike C. dropped in to provide the Last Rites.

This place can be restored to former glory easily and quickly. Things aren't as bleak as they appear to be. The core is rock solid--Mohican, Pickle, Brianpatrick, Flying, Max Crash, Nick Pierce, as well as a few other crafty regulars. It would be nice to have a few more female voices (preferably Playboy Bunnies) around. But the potential for smart rebuilding is there. Patience & rolling up sleeves are a major requirement. That said, the place isn't lacking brains. The "smarts" are still here.


Derelict warehouses. Well believe it or not, I've seen quite a few transformed into swank after-hour night clubs. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Last edited by Cityboy; 01-23-2017 at 12:24 PM..
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  #88  
Old 01-23-2017, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
This place can be restored to former glory easily and quickly.
It takes time, energy, a team of people -- and money -- to build and run a successful forum. And usually, it takes a dedicated individual to pull everything together.

A handful of regulars won't cut it. Someone has to take the bull by the horns and make it happen. And in this case, it would probably take a new owner.

It's not going to be quick and it's not easy. That's just wishful thinking -- obviously coming from someone who has never worked behind the scenes at a forum.

Last edited by Myers; 01-23-2017 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
There are some problems with the forums visuals, but the rest of it still works. You just won't be able to use avatars. Something I could not give two shits about anyway.
You might want to look at it from the perspective of a potential new member -- even if the avatars and other images were functioning.

To employ a cliche --

2005 called -- and it wants its site back.
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Old 01-23-2017, 03:00 PM
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And last time I checked, after a Google search for "writing forum," WB comes in at 4 or 5. That's worth a lot -- and not like starting at ground zero, but that's not going to last...
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