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  #31  
Old 01-29-2017, 07:00 AM
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Since when is rhetoric such as "blowing up the White House" peaceful? In my book, that statement is equivalent to supplying everyone with dangerous seeds. And with all the naive minds in the audience, someone is bound to start planting them.

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  #32  
Old 01-29-2017, 08:27 AM
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Millions of peaceful protests -- here and around the world -- and relatively few acts of violence of vandalism. Of course, that's going to be the focus of the "news stations."

The idea that the few people who took advantage of the situation to cause trouble are somehow "whipping young minds into a violent frenzy" is absurd. Where exactly is this happening?

As we can see from last weeks flurry of executive orders, exactly none of it is impeding Trump's "right" to act as president or preventing him from doing exactly what he wants to to.

What utter nonsense.
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  #33  
Old 01-29-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Since when is rhetoric such as "blowing up the White House" peaceful? In my book, that statement is equivalent to supplying everyone with dangerous seeds. And with all the naive minds in the audience, someone is bound to start planting them.


Good thing most liberals don't have guns. We could really be in a lot of trouble.
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  #34  
Old 01-29-2017, 09:09 AM
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Out of all the speeches and statements made during the protests, some people are naturally going to hone in on one statement made by a celebrity desperate to regain some kind of relevance.

Otherwise, I think a lot of the hysteria in the wake of the election is counterproductive and some of it is downright embarrassing. But I seriously doubt any of it is going to lead to bombings and a state of anarchy.
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  #35  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:01 AM
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Donald Trump is a gift for the Far-left. Now it can use his rhetoric to whip Mexicans and Muslims into a frenzy to cause chaos and confusion. Progressives have been trying for decades to turn the United States into a Socialist nation. Ant this is the opportunity they have been waiting for. When the "Berny Sanders" and the "Elisabeth Warrens" gain control of the White House (its coming), they will forge a partnership with Russia and China and thus become puppets for the Communist powerhouses.

New world order on the horizon.
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  #36  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:05 AM
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Some people is a dishonest statement. The truth is there are many out there. And you will see the disrespect mushroom in the years ahead.

Why downplay the obvious? Media business.
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  #37  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:24 AM
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Furthermore, the Left doesn't have any stomach for confrontation (you saw that in Obama's two terms). All it wants is the power to force the masses to do things "its" way. While all systems have their problems, a flawed Democracy is much better than Socialism, which itself is flawed.
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  #38  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:27 AM
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And I'm not surprised that you're one of the people who doesn't know the difference between socialism and social programs.

What Sanders pushes is closer to the Danish model -- extensive social programs with a decidedly market economy and a democratic form of government. And there is zero indication that a Democrat in the White House means any kind of subservient relationship to either China or Russia.

And the "some people" I'm talking about are people like you who are making a mountain out of molehill and buying into all the hysteria.

Last edited by Myers; 01-29-2017 at 12:09 PM..
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  #39  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:37 AM
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And things are so divided along partisan lines "that trying to force the masses to do things it's way" basically applies across the board. Absurd to try and attach that exclusively to "the left."

Last edited by Myers; 01-29-2017 at 10:41 AM..
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  #40  
Old 01-29-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Donald Trump is a gift for the Far-left. Now it can use his rhetoric to whip Mexicans and Muslims into a frenzy to cause chaos and confusion. Progressives have been trying for decades to turn the United States into a Socialist nation. Ant this is the opportunity they have been waiting for. When the "Berny Sanders" and the "Elisabeth Warrens" gain control of the White House (its coming), they will forge a partnership with Russia and China and thus become puppets for the Communist powerhouses.

New world order on the horizon.


The far-left and the far-right are a small vocal minority in both parties. Trump can be used as a tool for the far-left to get attention just like Obama was used as a tool for the far-right to get attention.

Liberal activists will call Trump a racist and accuse him of wanting to take away or compromise women's rights, in the same way conservative activists call anti-abortion a pro-life movement. Neither is really true and most of us know it.
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  #41  
Old 01-29-2017, 12:08 PM
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You're correct in asserting the far-right is just as "nuts" as the far-left. There is a power struggle for the soul of the United States going on, and one of the major problems is that both main political parties are leading the way. Sadly, moderate Democrats as well as moderate Republicans are being forced to abandon the middle to join the "nutjobs."
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  #42  
Old 01-29-2017, 12:10 PM
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What you are reviewing in the streets now is just a preview. Come the summer, things will really start heating up.
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  #43  
Old 01-29-2017, 12:32 PM
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If you honestly believe the far-left and the far-right are small vocal groups, then you should take a closer look. Truth is, the Left controls the Democratic Party and the Right runs the Republican Party.

Had the deck not been stacked against Bernie Sanders, the popular Socialist would have handily beaten Clinton. And the reason Trump won the primary is that he appealed to the majority of far-right Republicans. Therefore, the country is wading in unfamiliar waters, no longer do moderates (on both sides) call the shots.

Perhaps what had happened to other past superpowers is unfolding in the U.S.A here and now. Persia, Greece, Rome, Spain, Great Britain-- they all had a bite at the apple before collapsing. There is no hysteria in presenting a possible (or probable) outcome.

Last edited by Cityboy; 01-29-2017 at 12:35 PM..
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  #44  
Old 01-29-2017, 12:39 PM
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Myers, you just cannot avoid hitting beneath the belt. It's a necessity or compulsion with people like you. You're what we used to call a "low blow" expert, not far from a sneak.
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  #45  
Old 01-29-2017, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
What you are reviewing in the streets now is just a preview. Come the summer, things will really start heating up.


A million plus protesters marching for a day in the streets is a pretty good turn-out, but opposition politicians are not going to be swayed until the crowds are much much bigger. Violence will be put down by the police. The media will highlight the divisive shit on both sides because that's what we've shown them we want to watch.

The moderate people will get news from multiple sources and filter out the spin and gotcha bullshit, and tomorrow morning the US will still be about the same.

In other news: ISIS is happy we've banned muslims from a few countries from coming here. They're considering giving Donald a friendship award at their next convention. JSOC/Pentagon is considering giving them an armed drone attack at that convention, and far-left libs are hoping Donald is as dumb as they accuse him of being, and shows up to collect his award.
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  #46  
Old 01-29-2017, 12:52 PM
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Yes, I know -- if you tell certain people how they are wrong, or that what they're saying is guesswork or an exaggeration, they're going to claim you're trolling or taking a low blow or whatever. More soothing and much easier than responding with any kind of decent argument...
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  #47  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Yes, I know -- if you tell certain people how they are wrong, or that what they're saying is guesswork or an exaggeration, they're going to claim you're trolling or taking a low blow or whatever. More soothing and much easier than responding with any kind of decent argument...


That's one of the reasons some news organizations are much more editorially inclined than they probably should be for the good of the country. We've told them, through viewership, that's what we want. Who doesn't like to watch a train wreck?

I've started looking away from the accident on the corner, out of protest. Yeah, I want to see what fucked-up thing happened, and Jerry Springer put on some funny and sad content in his day, but in the end it just drives us to make terrible, reactionary, decisions.
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  #48  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:10 PM
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Yep. Dumb move on Trump's part. Hard to argue with the idea of a more rigorous and thorough vetting process.

But he first shoots himself in the foot by calling it "extreme vetting." How stupid is it to call anything extreme in this context?

If you have a better way to screen refugees -- then tell us all about it. You've surrounded yourself with so many awesome people -- it shouldn't be that hard to tell us how you're going to do it.

And then just fucking do it -- and apply it across the board, to all refugees from all countries. Singling out a few Muslim countries at this point is all about pandering and demonstrating that he's fulfilling his campaign promises NOW, regardless of any unforeseen consequences.

It's rash, it's ill-conceived and makes the U.S. look idiots.
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  #49  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Yep. Dumb move on Trump's part. Hard to argue with the idea of a more rigorous and thorough vetting process.

But he first shoots himself in the foot by calling it "extreme vetting." How stupid is it to call anything extreme in this context?

If you have a better way to screen refugees -- then tell us all about it. You've surrounded yourself with so many awesome people -- it shouldn't be that hard to tell us how you're going to do it.

And then just fucking do it -- and apply it across the board, to all refugees from all countries. Singling out a few Muslim countries at this point is all about pandering and demonstrating that he's fulfilling his campaign promises NOW, regardless of any unforeseen consequences.

It's rash, it's ill-conceived and makes the U.S. look idiots.


It plays to the lowest common denominator. One that has gained a significant foothold on TV and the Internet, but the vast majority of Americans are moderate people.

I'm a liberal but was disappointed in much of Obama's presidency. Sure he was targeted by obstructionist bone heads, but he went along with a lot of shit I didn't like, almost too willingly. Trump seems to be doubling down with an editorial/sensationalist agenda designed to maximize the divide and conquer rule.

The world is not going to go back to the 'good old days.' The wheels of global political and financial cooperation are going to churn out deeper and deeper ties between moderate people everywhere. I don't think anyone can stop that. Sure, you can throw out some red meat and get a vocal few to respond, but it will be short lived.

If any party or person proposes something truly preposterous or detrimental with regard to sane rationalism, the backlash from both sides will be swift and decisive.

I'm actually glad we elected Trump. He embodies the last dying gasp of a futile attempt to halt what will eventually work its way into our fabric.

Gene Roddenberry is probably chuckling to himself right now. He was right, and he knew it. I think I'll watch me some classic Star Trek this Sunday afternoon, in honor of a bold new world.
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  #50  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
That's one of the reasons some news organizations are much more editorially inclined than they probably should be for the good of the country. We've told them, through viewership, that's what we want. Who doesn't like to watch a train wreck?

I've started looking away from the accident on the corner, out of protest. Yeah, I want to see what fucked-up thing happened, and Jerry Springer put on some funny and sad content in his day, but in the end it just drives us to make terrible, reactionary, decisions.
Well, the biggest problem is that in addition to all the editorializing and what makes it worse is conformation bias -- people only going to the media outlets that confirm what they already believe...
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  #51  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:52 PM
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Damn thing isn't letting me quote your last post.

A lot of that makes sense to me. I'll get back to you when I finish making a pizza...
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  #52  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Well, the biggest problem is that in addition to all the editorializing and what makes it worse is conformation bias -- people only going to the media outlets that confirm what they already believe...


They can believe whatever they want. They can cry and stamp their feet, and the more they do, the more they will be marginalized by the global moderate community. I say let's get it all out there. I hope Trump does all the shit he said he was going to do in the campaign. Nothing could be more profitable for moderation and sanity.
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  #53  
Old 01-29-2017, 03:04 PM
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I'm used to cheap shot artists. Got sucker-punched a few times. Anybody throwing them isn't unique. Plenty of company out there.
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  #54  
Old 01-29-2017, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
I'm used to cheap shot artists. Got sucker-punched a few times. Anybody throwing them isn't unique. Plenty of company out there.


I can be a cheap shot artist, but this discussion doesn't seem to warrant that kind of tactic. Cheap shots are for provoking a quick reactive response designed to throw the opponent off balance. Usually, you want to go after a completely unhinged individual in that way. Somebody divorced from reality in a profound way.
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Old 01-29-2017, 05:02 PM
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I sensed negatively, not coming from you.

Much of what I said happens to be true. Wait till the weather gets warmer and the fireworks will really start. Rocky times. Crazy for the richest nation on earth.

Hey Myer, have you been to a supermarket lately? The food stamp scammers are running wild ... many fat and lazy. Why should someone earning minimum wage, struggling to get by, pay for these scammers?

That's what I call a social program abused and in need of fixing. You pay for these fat, lazy asses who refuse to work. I want my money to go to the needy, the ones who really need the help.
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  #56  
Old 01-29-2017, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
The wheels of global political and financial cooperation are going to churn out deeper and deeper ties between moderate people everywhere.
I think I get what you're saying -- but what do you mean my churning deeper ties?
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  #57  
Old 01-29-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
I sensed negatively, not coming from you.

Much of what I said happens to be true. Wait till the weather gets warmer and the fireworks will really start. Rocky times. Crazy for the richest nation on earth.

Hey Myer, have you been to a supermarket lately? The food stamp scammers are running wild ... many fat and lazy. Why should someone earning minimum wage, struggling to get by, pay for these scammers?

That's what I call a social program abused and in need of fixing. You pay for these fat, lazy asses who refuse to work. I want my money to go to the needy, the ones who really need the help.
More nonsense. It was clear you didn't understand the difference between socialism and social programs -- that's the point I was making.

It has nothing to do with the efficiency of the food stamp program or any other social program.

Here's the thing -- even if some part of what you say is true, unfortunately, it's mostly negated when the rest of it is guesswork or bullshit. Sorry -- but that's pretty much how it works.
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  #58  
Old 01-29-2017, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I think I get what you're saying -- but what do you mean my churning deeper ties?


Just that the world is slowly and steadily (or quickly depending on your sense of scale) becoming more connected all the time. Most people in the world want more or less the things we want. Economies and people are increasingly intertwined and I don't think that will end, even despite what may be a protectionist backlash at the moment.

I'm not saying there won't be problems. There will be problems, and the world could still end up being bombed back to the Stone Age. I just don't think so. Or rather, I hope not.

Already tech companies are lining up to oppose what they see as a detriment to their businesses.
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:36 PM
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The Trump administration is hopefully the last dying gasp of a movement to turn back the clock to a time that existed (fictionally) in the 'good old days.' The people who voted for him either voted against Hillary, or under some make believe pretense that we can ignore decades of progress (good and bad), and return to the kingdom of Oz where our grandfathers lived.

We can't return. It never existed, and it will not ever be.

Like it or not, globalism is happening. The genie is out of the bottle and it can't be put back in. Our financial security as a nation is inextricably linked to world markets. Those good manufacturing jobs can't and won't be brought back to the US. Yeah, maybe a couple factories will open up here, but we won't, as consumers, be able or willing to afford the stuff they will makeónot enough of it to make a difference.

I hope the 'libtards'can shut up enough to give Donald enough rope to hang himself. He will if you let him. I don't think he's a racist, or wants to take women's rights away, but he is woefully unqualified to do the most powerful job in the world. His Fuck-ups will be painful, but hopefully we will learn a lesson.
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:26 AM
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You're ego needs taming.

BP, I'm sorry your family came from such a God-awful place. Mine reached these shores broke, rolled up their sleeves, and provided food and a roof to other members. The United States of America was no fictional place, neither was the past which presented opportunities the poor immigrants. Things were a bit different back then. The government wasn't handing out free things. We had family, we had friends, and we had community centers which gave to the needy. My grandparents didn't live in Oz. They lived in a love-filled community in New York City's Lower East Side. But, not only did the Italians appreciate that oasis, so did the Jews escaping Russia, the Blacks fleeing the South, and so many other nationalities who appreciated a second chance to make the best of their lives.

Who knows, maybe your grandparents were really happy but forgot to inform you. It's a possibility. I know the old folks I knew (relatives or not) were always smiling and sharing.
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