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  #91  
Old 01-24-2013, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by wildchild View Post
No, you spelled it wrong for centuries. We fixed it for you. You're welcome.
This bickering is starting to take the piss. Stop arguing over the spelling of a word.

Both spellings are fine, end of discussion.

Lately, it's becoming rather easy for others to seek a new place. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's considered it (not to mention the newbies coming to the site).

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Last edited by DavidGil; 01-24-2013 at 04:29 AM..
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  #92  
Old 01-24-2013, 04:40 AM
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"And all because the Lady loves....Smith and Wesson."
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  #93  
Old 01-24-2013, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wildchild View Post
Anyone want to come back down to Earth for reality? There are an estimated 275 million guns in the USA. Who in their right mind thinks that controlling the legal sale and ownership of new guns is going to make a hill of beans of difference?

Gun control opponents aren't saying to do nothing about gun violence. We are saying that the illegal action needs to be controlled. Stop the killing. There is no way to make even a tiny dent in the number of guns in this country. So why is all the effort currently about acquiring new guns legally?

Why? Because politicians love unsolvable problems. They don't want to solve the gun violence problem - they want to argue about it, use it as a campaign tool, and use it as a way to build up a huge program to spend billions of dollars so they can hand out government money to their campaign donors. I guarantee you that gun control brings in hundreds of millions of dollars on both political sides of the issue and neither side wants it solved because it will cut off that money.

Arguing about gun ownership in the USA is stupid. If we want to stop the violence we should stop the violence but not waste any more time and effort talking about the legality of owing a gun.
Just for the record, I haven't been arguing about gun laws.
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  #94  
Old 01-24-2013, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by wildchild View Post
No, you spelled it wrong for centuries. We fixed it for you. You're welcome.
Way to save face dude.
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  #95  
Old 01-24-2013, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidGil View Post
This bickering is starting to take the piss. Stop arguing over the spelling of a word.
That one sailed right over your head, didn't it? I'd explain it but then it wouldn't be nearly as clever.

Did you ever consider closing a thread and not reading it if it upsets you so much? Just asking. This is the way grown-ups talk to each other when they have passionate feelings. Don't worry - we aren't getting a divorce. We love each other.
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  #96  
Old 01-24-2013, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by wildchild View Post
That one sailed right over your head, didn't it? I'd explain it but then it wouldn't be nearly as clever.

Did you ever consider closing a thread and not reading it if it upsets you so much? Just asking. This is the way grown-ups talk to each other when they have passionate feelings. Don't worry - we aren't getting a divorce. We love each other.
Ah, fuck off. The arguing is all over the forum.

Real good job on making yourself look mature and smart. And nice try at attempting to insult or annoy me.

Edit: And now I can actually be bothered to pay much attention... Yes, I realise why you originally said what you did earlier in the thread (prior to my quote). Implying they're not american and therefore don't have a clue regarding what they're talking about. But it is beside the point. No point in continuing to debate (or whatever you want to call it) the spelling of a word. Neither were my words directly aimed at you. Rather, both you and John.

It's childish to the extreme and isn't smart. And to be frank, you weren't very clever when you first said what you did.

Edit 2: Let me put it into perspective for you actually. And I'm british.

Earlier in the thread, I said 'I'm just going to hop off as I have nothing to add to the discussion other than I have no problem with people defending themselves. The problem only arises when the guns are misused or accidents happen. (Obvious thing to say, I know.)'

Right, so if I change that to 'I have no problem with being taught self-defence via the use of firearms or keeping them. But the problem arises when they're used wrongly or accidents happen.' It doesn't read that well, but you get my point. So, because I said 'defence', that is a reason to say I don't know what I'm talking about?

I think if we're at the level where people start dismissing what others say because of nationality/'word spelling' or picking on the spelling of words, this is where I shake my head and leave. And I realise you weren't saying they don't know what they're talking about because they used 'defence', but it simply adds further credence that they don't, because of everything else said.

It is just nitpicky and stupid to point it out really.
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Last edited by DavidGil; 01-24-2013 at 07:35 AM..
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  #97  
Old 01-24-2013, 07:54 AM
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I don't understand this attitude of "you Brits don't know what you're on about" when it comes to guns.. I'm not a leper either, but I shit sure know I don't want it.
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  #98  
Old 01-24-2013, 08:25 AM
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If you think is is stupid and nitpicky then bugger off. I think it goes right to the heart of the attitude. There is a predominant brit attitued toward guns and knowing the nationality of the poster means a lot in dertermining where their attitude comes from.

We know that many brits think we Americans are a bunch of red-neck inbred rubes who don't know the first thing about civilized behaviour. Well good for you. Go have a cuppa and munch a crumpit.

You're trying to fit square pegs into round holes. You don't have many guns and that works for you. We have lots and lots of guns and that works for us. It is a big thing for us and a matter of both principle and pride. We have guaranteed rights that a lot of countries don't have. We won't give those up because those other countries don't like them.

Are we proud that we have some lunatics who go nuts and kill people indiscriminately? Of course not. We need to stop them. But, we need to stop the criminals and leave the law-abiding citizens alone. You don't stop criminals by taking things away from non-criminals.

What was the discussion like in 1996 following the gunman bursting into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and killing 16 children, the teacher, and himself? Did you pat yourselves on the back about your restrictive gun control? Did you welcome American commentators blasting you as a whole country for allowing this to happen?

That shooting in Newtown hurt. It hurt bad. I can barely watch any news coverage of it. I think of my grandchildren the same age as those shot and I can't keep from crying just thinking about that massacre. In the midst of that pain Americans pulled together like we do in every crisis. In the midst of that pain it feels like you brits are taking delight in kicking us while we are down and rubbing salt in the wounds left by that crazy asshole.

So put up with it, deal with it, or go away. Doesn't much matter. But understand the backlash when you use our grief as a weapon to bludgeon us into your way of thinking. Don't be surprised if we don't much like it.
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  #99  
Old 01-24-2013, 08:46 AM
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More children have died from Israeli attacks on schools and hospitals.
People seem to accept that.
I have seen people applaud it.

People like simple "solutions". So they create them. Wear them like a rosary.
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  #100  
Old 01-24-2013, 09:32 AM
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Of course the death rate in Britain is low in comparison to ours. It's hard to kill a person with a fucking catapult. Usually when they see that huge rock coming at them they just step aside.


If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball!

Dodgeball..the ultimate gladitorial sport.
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  #101  
Old 01-24-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by wildchild View Post
If you think is is stupid and nitpicky then bugger off. I think it goes right to the heart of the attitude. There is a predominant brit attitued toward guns and knowing the nationality of the poster means a lot in dertermining where their attitude comes from.

We know that many brits think we Americans are a bunch of red-neck inbred rubes who don't know the first thing about civilized behaviour. Well good for you. Go have a cuppa and munch a crumpit.

You're trying to fit square pegs into round holes. You don't have many guns and that works for you. We have lots and lots of guns and that works for us. It is a big thing for us and a matter of both principle and pride. We have guaranteed rights that a lot of countries don't have. We won't give those up because those other countries don't like them.

Are we proud that we have some lunatics who go nuts and kill people indiscriminately? Of course not. We need to stop them. But, we need to stop the criminals and leave the law-abiding citizens alone. You don't stop criminals by taking things away from non-criminals.

What was the discussion like in 1996 following the gunman bursting into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and killing 16 children, the teacher, and himself? Did you pat yourselves on the back about your restrictive gun control? Did you welcome American commentators blasting you as a whole country for allowing this to happen?

That shooting in Newtown hurt. It hurt bad. I can barely watch any news coverage of it. I think of my grandchildren the same age as those shot and I can't keep from crying just thinking about that massacre. In the midst of that pain Americans pulled together like we do in every crisis. In the midst of that pain it feels like you brits are taking delight in kicking us while we are down and rubbing salt in the wounds left by that crazy asshole.

So put up with it, deal with it, or go away. Doesn't much matter. But understand the backlash when you use our grief as a weapon to bludgeon us into your way of thinking. Don't be surprised if we don't much like it.
Nah, don't think I'll bugger off (on the point of arguing a word's spelling. I'll quite happily bugger off on the debate of guns). All I'm saying is to not pick on someone's spelling because it is daft. Rather, pick on what they actually say. That is all. And I haven't attempted to bludgeon my way of thinking onto you regarding guns.

In fact, I said three sentences. ''I'm just going to hop off as I have nothing to add to the discussion other than I have no problem with people defending themselves. The problem only arises when the guns are misused or accidents happen. (Obvious thing to say, I know.)'

Those are things that can't be disputed, because they are factual and apply everywhere. Not just to the USA. 'The problem only arises when guns are misused or accidents happen.'

To be quite honest, I don't have any real strong feelings on the matter. The world is pretty much a shit place everywhere. Or it can be.

The rest of your post, I have absolutely no problem with. And I do not, in any shape or form, share the view that all Americans are crazy gun nuts. Nor do I take any delight in kicking you while you are down. I have not said one thing that could be taken as such.

Edit: And yep, Lin. Bad shit happens everywhere. It's a sad fact of life.
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Last edited by DavidGil; 01-24-2013 at 09:55 AM..
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  #102  
Old 01-24-2013, 09:59 AM
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People, we have a much more serious issue to deal with than gun deaths in this or any other country.

Not once have I ever heard a single person cry out over the cruel and barbaric sport that is played by countless thousands from grade schoolers to adults. Last year alone it is estimated that over 23,135 serious injuries, some debilitating, have taken place just in the US alone. Imagine what world stats must be. Horrific.

Honestly you people make me sick when you insist on turning a blind eye to a sport that is going on right under your noses. Your silence condones the continued barbarism everytime the participants set foot on a court, or in a field or in a street or someones backyard.

What is it going to take to make you rise up in unison and demand the sport be struck down? Will it take seeing your own child bloodied and battered crying for help or, god forbid, breathing their last breath before you take action? I hope not but I'm afraid even that scenario is not enough to move you heartless bastards to action.

You whine about guns yet you crave blood and the screams of agony from a sport designed to humiliate and injure. You revel in your mob like mentality as your silence supports the gladitorial aspect of all that is wrong with mankind. Shame on all of you.

In the end it will be the worldwide downfall of all civilizations that partake of it. Yes, you know what I am talking about...Dodgeball.

And don't one of you dare claim that if you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball!

That adage has been proven a fallacy. "Forget control and keep you eye on the ball.
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  #103  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:13 AM
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It's not necessarily you, DavidGl. It is a collective You. The posts all blur together after a while and each person on each side of the debate gets lumped into collective Us and Them.

I'm all for gun safety to prevent accidents. Those same young grandchildren I talk about have picked up and held their father's guns so he can tell them that this is their chance to touch it and they are never to do so without him handing it to them. They couldn't anyway because he keeps them in a gun safe and the bullets in a separate hidden safe. He'll teach them to shoot them when they are a little older.

He owns multiple guns because he likes them. His can't be stolen and misused unless the thief can removed an 800 pound gun safe from his basement. I go out in the country and shoot them with him every once in a while. It's quite an adrenaline rush to blow apart a milk jug fill of water with a WWII Garand M1 Carbine.

Not everyone can afford a gun safe. That was my daughter's requirement before she would allow them in their home. But if you can afford a gun, you can afford a gun-lock. They should be mandatory. I support that gun control.

I also support taking guns away from convicted felons, the insane, and the criminally stupid. Hard to do with the latter because stupidity isn't illegal (yet - it should be).

Here's something I support. Use a gun illegally and you are not only forbidden from every owning one legally, but you are forced to open your home to inspection at any time so authorities verify you don't have any weapons. You see, I am very willing for people to have their rights taken away - when they show they are not capable of protecting those rights.
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  #104  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:18 AM
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In the end it will be the worldwide downfall of all civilizations that partake of it. Yes, you know what I am talking about...Dodgeball.
I vehemenlty denounce dodgeball. You're right - it is barbaric. It is a practice designed by the jocks to publically humiliate and demean the non jocks. It is the biggest form of legalized and encouraged bullying in existence today. I have dodgeball nightmares to this day.
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  #105  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:52 AM
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No problem, Wild. I just hope it's clear where I was coming from. I just don't think nationality should be the deciding factor in determining the value of a post.

Now, I'd like to move on from that and while I myself don't have anything to say really, I will say one last thing on the topic of guns:

I'll be up front and say I could be totally wrong about this. But regardless, despite people needing to earn the right to purchase a gun, would it be fair to say it's still much easier to get guns in the USA (illegally) due to the availability of them in the country? (I'm thinking of it contributing heavily to violence on the streets in particular here)

I think that's a fair point/question, but like I said, I could be totally wrong. I don't know enough about this stuff. And that is really the only strong view I have regarding gun control. If it is the case, then it's worth comparing the pros and cons of guns being more widely available to each other.

That is really the only thing you yourselves need to consider. Is it worthwhile having more guns out there, just so that you yourself feel more safe? And it is indeed something that is only your business. Not mine or that of others. So, that's why I don't feel strongly on the subject or feel the need to force my views onto you or other Americans.

I realise it's not like all gun crime will magically go away however if people weren't allowed to own guns anymore. I'm just thinking that if safety was given up, then the gun crime would be less. Granted, life being what it is, the poor are still shit on and so the people who would turn to violence would probably still do so anyway, even if guns weren't as easily obtained.

Edit: I realise guns are used for more than self-defence as well. I guess 'giving up safety' should be 'giving up your freedom to own them' ideally.
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Last edited by DavidGil; 01-24-2013 at 12:49 PM..
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  #106  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:43 PM
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That's the problem all the unicorn wand wavers don't want to face.
No matter what laws are passed, there are so many guns around it's just pointless.

It would actually make more sense to control ammuntion, but guess what? The real gun nuts load their own.

And if they somehow managed to rid the USA of all those millions of guns out there everywhere, people would just smuggle them in.

They do now. There's no legal source for a fully automatic AK, but I've seen them in the Barrio.

It might be better to take that half a billion dollars and see if you can work on people being violent. Maybe.

But, as you've pointed out, they don't really want that. They want a cross to bear and rally around.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:45 PM
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Sometimes I get the feeling there are crusaders out there praying for a school massacre to make hay out of.

Now, here's a movie plot for you. A "progressive" sees little way of defeating the solid, entrenched conservative congressman he's running against, but the guy is a notorious gun freak.
So they guy gets some gangbangers to shoot up a school, then uses it as a "bloody shirt" to wave in the election.

Anybody want to cast the roles?
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  #108  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:49 PM
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Yes, I would say it is extremely easy to get a gun illegally here. If I drove to Chicago (where it is harder to buy a gun legally than here in Indiana), I'm sure I could pick up an illegal gun in a matter of minutes. But I don't need to because I could also drive to the store here in town and be back with a gun in less than an hour.

BTW - the murder rate in Chicago, a city that has one of the toughest gun laws in the country, is 10 times higher than here where I can buy a gun much easier.

I don't have any problem cracking down on illegal gun sales. I'd gladly take all the money wasted on finding and busting pot production and sales as well as the money poured down the toilet finding and destroying bootleg whiskey and use it to fight illegal gun activity. We could free up billions of dollars per year that could be used to fight real crimes - not the stupid war on drugs bullshit.

I think part of the attraction of us and our guns is a result of the worldwide condemnation of our gun ownership. If you tell me I can't have something for no other reason than you don't want me to have it, I'm going to want it even more. I don't know how unique that is to Americans, but it is real. We saw it with the miguided attempts to outlaw liquor. Liquor sales and production increased tenfold when we were told we couldn't have it. We see it with pot. Estimates are that pot smoking would probably drop if it was legal and you could buy a pack of MJ down at the 7-11 store.

It isn't productive to argue about how many guns we have out there. The ship has already sailed on cutting that number. Instead, find real ways to control their illegal use. I don't mind putting more responsibility on legal gun owners. If you own a gun and don't protect it properly, the punishment for its illegal use should come back to you.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:26 PM
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I would agree that it's best trying to deal with the core problem. People.

I'd like to think that, as writers, we know that society and our experiences are what shape who we become and what we do (in terms of turning to crime). While the odd person might be born bad, I don't believe it's the majority. And while choice does indeed play a part in things, society and our experiences still shape us.

We have the same problem in the UK with yobs etc. and I imagine it's the same in every other country. I know that where I used to live, you could get started on for just looking at someone. In fact, I was walking down one of the streets once as a teen, someone said 'what you looking at?' The solution was to not say anything, but I did. I said, 'nothing'. We exchanged a few more words, but nothing happened. I didn't even know the guy. (And yes, we used to have a gang of people across the street from us who would possibly fling insults at others for simply walking out the door. My dad got abused for being overweight. And I'd bet they were carrying knives at the very least. Them making a racket at night and drinking was a daily ritual.) And actually, now that I think about it, I've been quite lucky, as I'm in no shape or form a fighter. There was also a time when I was surrounded by others because they expected that a guy I was talking to would start on me. I managed to talk myself out of it again and remained calm. Guy just wanted to be confrontational at the end of the day. *shrugs*

Also, take for example a recent headline in one of the papers in the UK that read something like 'They've limited our benefits and call us scroungers, while the MPs ask for a 20,000 pay rise.' This is without touching on the can of worms that is the rich getting tax cuts when it's the poor who need help. There simply aren't many jobs going either. As an example on the job front also, I went into town the other day and just around the shopping centre, there were two stores shutting. Another had shut a while back. And two of these were big retail chains. So, that's quite a few people out of jobs (and it's not limited to just that town, as the entire retail chains were shutting). We essentially bail the banks out and it seems to me like they're quite content to let businesses shut down.

There's something deeply wrong with society here and it's little wonder why some people turn out the way they do. (For USA stuff, while it's not the same as what I mentioned here, I loved watching The Wire as it showed how youngsters in the poor areas get roped into crime. Not to mention the fact they're born into it. But I guess that financial difficulties is a large reason for street violence in the USA, as it is for many frustrations in the UK.)

So, yeah. All of this to say the world's a shit place. It's not just the USA that has to do deal with violence and an unhappy population, even though the violence in the USA is possibly more common place. And the problem isn't the guns.
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Last edited by DavidGil; 01-24-2013 at 04:16 PM..
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  #110  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:26 PM
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Actually the NRA once suggested a "drivers licence" type set-up for legal guns.

But you never see the crusaders come up with that sort of thing. They are always trying to ban something. Generally some stupid little detail like the stock or magazine that means nothing.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Lin View Post
Sometimes I get the feeling there are crusaders out there praying for a school massacre to make hay out of.

Now, here's a movie plot for you. A "progressive" sees little way of defeating the solid, entrenched conservative congressman he's running against, but the guy is a notorious gun freak.
So they guy gets some gangbangers to shoot up a school, then uses it as a "bloody shirt" to wave in the election.

Anybody want to cast the roles?
Hell yeah. Tom Hanks for the evil congressman. It's time he played a really despicable character. I know he did Perdition Road but that was a bad guy gloss job.

Next to last scene; Hanks win the election. He is in a convention hall giving his acceptance speech to his voters. Banners and cheers everywhere as he touts how he will push the nations capital to vote in gun control.

As he walks off stage, a nut; (you can see this coming can't ya) shoots him several times.

Final scene; Hanks in hospital bed on life support. He is paralyzed from the neck down but he is awake. A bunch of school children are gathered in his room with flowers and cards for him. It ends with them singing God Bless America to Hanks.

This is a slam dunk academy award winning movie..or at least a couple of golden globes.

BTW if you want a touch of comedy with it you can cast Sarah Palin as his wife. Holy shit.
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  #112  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:12 AM
Lin
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And Condi Rice as the nurse? Cameo for Charlton Heston.... is Jim Brady still alive?
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  #113  
Old 01-25-2013, 01:23 PM
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Brady is the guy that sells the illegal semi auto to the first shooter out of the backroom of is pawn shop.Condi would be perfect for the nurse and during the campaign.

Heston gets some old clips shown of him touting the NRA.

The whole thing is Felliniesque.
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  #114  
Old 01-25-2013, 02:01 PM
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There have to be parts for Charlie Sheen and Tom Cruise in here somewhere?
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:39 PM
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Sheen is a pimp that supplies broads for Hanks and his crew. Cruise is a cross dressing fim maker producing a documentary about the campaign.
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  #116  
Old 01-28-2013, 08:54 AM
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A wise man once said:

"The beauty of the second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
~Thomas Jefferson
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  #117  
Old 01-28-2013, 09:32 AM
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Exactly! The second Amendment is not so redneck Joe can hunt, its Marxist Moe doesn't hunt you!
The truth is gun control isn't about getting rid of guns to make a peaceful world, its about taking guns away from you and putting them into the hand of an elite few.
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  #118  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:02 AM
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Gun control is like any other debatable issue. It has two faces and a big grey area in the middle. Is it daft to suggest that most people would probably not give a second thought to the issue so long as it didn't bother them. Talk of rights being eroded. In the 1980's I used to attend football(soccer) matches, this at the height of violence at football games. I have spent several mornings / afternoons being kept at train stations for no other reason than the Police saw me as a young male and a football game was on. I wasn;'t even attending the match, but they kept me at oone station for 4 hours.....rights? Rights? We don't need no stinkin' rights!
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:57 PM
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mass shooting 18"" is difficult to understand. how many people were kiled? I may not support control on legal gun owners, but your number seems to be wrong, make you look like you are trying to hide something, not good for your argument.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:20 PM
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Actually, I don't think the score matters much when it comes to mowing down school kids
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